Introduction

Here is the Crescendo Music Education Podcast – Episode 100. (Fireworks!) Hi, welcome to the Crescendo Music Education Podcast, I’m Deb Brydon and I have hijacked the microphone for this 100th episode. The tables have turned. I’m going to interview Debbie O’Shea. So first of all, welcome Debbie, to your own podcast.

This podcast is being recorded on the lands of the Turrbal people. I acknowledge them as the traditional owners of the land and pay my respects to elder’s past, present and emerging. They were the first music makers on this land.

About ‘Read the Episode’: Sometimes, we would rather skim visually than listen to a podcast! That’s a great way to learn too!
The transcript of episode 100 of The Crescendo Music Education Podcast is below.

Debbie O’Shea
Oh, Deb, thank you so much for having me.

Deb Brydon
It’s an absolute pleasure. So I’m going to read your bio.

Debbie O’Shea’s Bio

Deb Brydon
Debbie O’Shea is an eternal optimist who loves a good pun, an enthusiastic highly qualified and experienced music teacher who believes every child needs music education. She’s passionate about supporting, connecting and inspiring other music educators through her work in the classroom, her business Crescendo Music Education and also through professional associations. She is someone who loves presenting at workshops and webinars and thrives on collaboration.

Debbie is a lifelong learner who will continue to learn and grow till she drops dead. She’s a nationally accredited highly accomplished teacher who is in love with her husband and two adult sons. Debbie, is there anything you’d like to add to that bio?

Debbie O’Shea
Oh, I think that pretty much sums it up, Deb.

Deb Brydon
How does it feel having your own words coming back at you, Debbie?

Debbie O’Shea
It feels just a little odd, but fabulous. But fabulous. It’s episode 100!

Debbie’s Thoughts On Podcasting

Deb Brydon
It’s very exciting. It has to be celebrated. I’d like to start by asking you for what you are most grateful, both professionally and personally?

Debbie O’Shea
Here’s the gratitude question. It’s so important to be grateful. Okay, I have to start with my family, of course, I have to. I could not do most of what I’ve done in my life without them. They’re central. So I have to start with them. And then the list of people after that is massive. Because my whole journey, professionally and personally, but I’ll just talk professionally for a minute. My whole journey is about the people that I’ve met and what I’ve learnt from them and the direction they have sent me. So it’s right from Pam Burton, who was my lecturer at Kelvin Grove Teachers College as it was then, not even a university, who did the Kodály bit of the music major in my primary?

And I went, Oh, what is this? What is this magic that actually makes music logical and understandable? And ooh I do like this. And she must have seen that spark and said Debbie would you like to be the student representative on the Kodály Queensland committee? Yes, please. And from then on, it’s just meeting amazing people, Judy Johnson, Anne Comiskey, just the people that I’ve got to meet and work with. I am grateful for every single one of them and everything I’ve learnt from them right up to modern day. People like the amazing interviewer for this episode, Deb Brydon, I’m most, most, most grateful for Deb in my life at the moment.

Deb Brydon
Nice to be the modern era. So our podcast is all about your podcasts. So the first question I have for you is how long did you want to make a podcast before it actually happened?

Debbie O’Shea
Years and years and years. I was going to try to work out how many years but a lot of years. A lot. I remember Katie Wardrobe starting her, oh Katie Argyle now, starting her podcast and me going That’s
what I want to do. I need to do that. And the urge became stronger and stronger because I thought I do lots of self reflection. I think all good educators do heaps of self reflection. Actually, I’m going to just change that. All good human beings do lots of self reflection, in my opinion. I thought, What am I good at? Okay, I’m good at connecting with people and networking and I thrive on those sorts of connections and networks. So that’s, I think, one of my strengths.

And another strength is I talk a lot. So podcasting was a bit of a no brainer really, someone that likes connecting with people and talk, I thought podcasting, it was made for me. And I was so into listening to podcast after podcast in my areas of passion and interest, and I thought I want that to be me. Then I go through the Hold on, listen to my voice. It’s a very ordinary, very Australian accent, who’s going to want to listen to that? I went through all of that stuff. But the more podcasts I listened to, the more I realised, hold on these podcasts are just, that’s who this person is. It doesn’t make them better. It doesn’t make them worse. That’s Oh I’m listening to one from England and there’s this British accent. And I, as Popeye would say, I am what I am. And so why not?

Deb Brydon
Fair enough? What do you think has been the most surprising thing about podcasting?

Debbie O’Shea
It shouldn’t be surprising. But I was surprised at the additional connections that it made. Like I knew it would be amazing to speak to people because I knew I wanted to do quite a few guest episodes. I
wanted solo episodes but I knew I wanted to do the guest thing. And I knew it would be great to talk to people, and especially people I know and respect or people I’d heard about and just literally cold called, because some of them, I literally just found them on Facebook and went okay. I’ll give you an example, Bill Henry, Mr. Henry’s Music World. I didn’t know Bill right, but I liked his video clips. Simple as that.

So I found him, I Facebooked him, Facebook message. Hi, I’m Debbie, I have this little podcast. I’d love to interview you. Sure. He’s a delightful man. So I hadn’t thought of the podcast connecting me with even more amazing people. And you know this Deb very well, because you talk to me sometimes after I’ve had a bit of a record of one or two, it gets me so excited. I will finish a podcast episode and all just want to run around screaming saying that was so fun, talk about floating my boat. I loved the conversation. I loved what it’s giving the people that are listening. Because the people that are listening might not get a chance to hear what my guests want to say. And even if they reach an extra 100 people with their thoughts. That’s amazing. Like, I hadn’t thought of it. Which is stupid, because obviously it is, as a platform for other people to tell the world what they want to say.

So, yeah, the surprising thing is the joy and connectedness that I expected, but not in the volume that I’m getting.

Debbie’s Love For Connection

Deb Brydon
That goes back to your bio, doesn’t it? One of your things you love is connecting people. So it’s perfect for you. What do you think now this is going to be hard, is the best thing about podcasting? You’ve probably just answered that really, haven’t you?

Debbie O’Shea
I have really.

Deb Brydon
It’s about connection for you, isn’t it?

Debbie O’Shea
It is about the connection and getting the message to more and more people. And convincing people that music is necessary for every child. The only downside in a way is that the people we’re reaching are the converts.

Deb Brydon
Yeah, preaching to the choir.

Debbie O’Shea
Exactly. Like the principal that’s really anti music, right? That is giving the music teacher a hard time. Oh, they’re not going to tune into the Crescendo Music Education podcast are they?

Deb Brydon
No.

Debbie O’Shea
So it leads to the question that I usually ask about advocacy. How do we reach people that are not converted? No, I will not use the word converted. I will use the word the ignorance of the importance of music education. How do we reach the them?

Deb Brydon
I guess though Debbie, you’re encouraging and emboldening the people who already do know to make more of a difference in their own little patch too.

Debbie O’Shea
Yes, yeah, that’s true. Yeah, that’s a good thought.

What Has Debbie Learnt?

Deb Brydon
So we’ve talked about podcasting in general. But for you as an actual practicing music teacher, what
have you learnt through the podcast that’s actually changed your own practice?

Debbie O’Shea
So much? Every episode I learn. I learn and I do love the personal stories too, I love that. But the question is, what have I learnt that’s changed practice. And there are a lot of little things all the way
along, so I’m just going to try and pick out one or two. Right, I am thinking Bryson, I’ll mention Bryson Tarbert. So Bryson came on and he was talking about inclusive practice, UDL, universal design for learning. I always just think of UDL scotch and dry cans or whatever (laughs). Sorry, I don’t know if they have UDL anywhere else in the world or it’s just Australian?

Anyway, no, not the alcoholic can of drink. All right. When Bryson was talking about the importance of moving, which for most of us it’s just good pedagogical practice to have periods of relaxation and concentration, most of us know that, you wouldn’t have your four year olds sitting there trying to focus for half an hour. Well, if you tried it once, you wouldn’t try it again. But one of the things he talked about was different zones within the room. And I don’t have a big room. But I thought, yes, because where I sit with the computer and the screen there and the whiteboards right next to it. And I couldn’t reconfigure. So when we’re on the whiteboard, and when we’re on the screen, it’s pretty much the same zone.

But when I’m reading a book, or singing a book, whatever, the book focus, I’m often in that same place. And I thought, Okay, what could I do? Where could I do it? And I just set up a music stand, and I have a sign hanging on it saying music book of the week, and I have the book on the music stand. So that reminds me to try and finish in time to get to the book, and a chair. And I’ve just got that over in a different part of the room. So when it’s time, we just get up and we move to there. So it actually is for no other purpose but that break, that little wriggle movement, it’s literally a movement break. Whereas I used to, I thought more of movement break as let’s do a dance, let’s do an action song, which is of course, that’s a movement break too. But after talking to Bryson, I thought, well yes a movement break can actually be just come and sit over in that bit of the room. So that was something that I put into my classroom straightaway.

Debbie O’Shea
I did love. It’s not exactly changed my practice, but it’s helping me in the way I’m looking at when I work with my instrumental teachers. So the chat with Peter Boonshaft was pretty fabulous. When he talked about how his learning in Kodály philosophy really impacted his pedagogy in instrumental instruction, and how we’re all music teachers, and it’s just good practice across the board is good practice. And I think that’s helped in the way that I work with my instrumental teachers. And I also have tried to put into practice some of the things that Wendy Rolls talked about with vocal care and young people’s voices. Literally, everybody that I speak to, it doesn’t necessarily drastically change my practice, but it helps me reflect upon my practice.

Deb Brydon
And maybe reminds you of some things, or reaffirms some things you’re doing as well. So that’s what you’ve learnt for the classroom. This is a big question. What have you learnt about podcasting?

Debbie O’Shea
(Laughs). Well, one, I couldn’t do it without Jen. Hi Jen, my podcast editor. Look, the actual podcasting recording bit. Love it. Great. And with today’s technology, not ridiculously difficult, it’s all the other stuff that I think, well actually I know, I wouldn’t have got to. But I work full time. So I think it’s a simple thing to do is to create podcasts, it’s getting all of the systems to get it up on the platform to get it out there, the editing, the adding of the all of the tracks.

Look, if I had to do it myself, I just couldn’t fit it in. And I think that’s one of the things that stopped me for so long. But I was so desperate to do it, I just had to outsource everything else. I make the little picture icons myself, I do what I can. But basically I outsource the rest. So it’s an odd thing to say, it’s so simple to do. But it’s all of that other follow up stuff. It’s a chore. It’s repetitive. It’s a bit of drudgery, which the actual recording bit isn’t, but the rest of it is. So I guess I’m pleased I pay someone else to do that. But one day I’d like to actually make some money. But at the moment the podcasts cost me lots of money, but I really think it’s worth doing.

What is your WHY?

Deb Brydon
Well that leads us to the next question. The Simon Sinek question of what is your WHY for podcasts, which we had touched on? But you know, let’s bring it down. What is your big why for podcasting.

Debbie O’Shea
The big why is, and I think that we’ve got to Simon Sinek everything, we’ve got to get back to the why. And it’s why I was so determined to keep going until it actually happened. I think a lot of it comes down to the isolation of our profession. And so many music teachers are so alone, and feel so alone. And it’s so easy to feel unsupported in your school when you’re the only one and if you don’t have a supportive administration. And we know of Australian situations where music teachers have been literally bullied out of their position, and you’re so alone, no one understands what you do. So I wanted to help people see that their job is really, really, really, really, really important.

And to stay connected to people that believe in them. So I think it’s that isolation, and I’m really desperate to help and support other teachers. This is gonna sound a little big, sorry, but I believe it, that then is actually influencing our world. It’s rolling out to the children, who are our future. Like, it’s sounding like a song, isn’t it? But (sings) I believe that children are the future, but it is literally rolling out to the children through the teachers. We’re literally changing the world, through the next generation.

Deb Brydon
What is your dream for your podcast then? You’ve already fulfilled your dream of years and years of actually getting it going and making 100 episodes? That’s incredible (cheering). Where to from here? What’s your dream?

Debbie O’Shea
Well to keep going? I think I can, I think I can. There’s still lots of people to talk to. There’s lots of solo episodes I want to do as well. I have recently gone into more little series to help shape things a little bit. So I guess I’ll keep going in that way. Ultimately, I would like my business to also expand, which will mean the podcast could either have a second podcast, oh my goodness, okay. I can’t believe I actually said that out loud.

Deb Brydon
Too big a dream, Debbie.

Debbie O’Shea
But I’d really like to expand to include- you said dream- Alright, so I’ll dream.

Deb Brydon
It doesn’t have to be realistic.

Debbie’s Dream

Debbie O’Shea
To include general teachers, carers and parents. I do not want this to change. I believe there is a real need for music education, support and podcasts and that’s what this is and will continue to be but I just feel a pull to cover even more of the world.

Deb Brydon
World domination! (laughs) Okay, well, Debbie, I’d like to end the podcast, well almost end, with some nuggets of fabulous. You’re asking people for their nuggets of fabulous all the time. And I know you have millions of nuggets of fabulous. Can you drill down to a couple for us today?

The Classic “Nuggets of Fabulous”

Debbie O’Shea
I will try, gee it was hard. Um, I hereby apologise to all my previous guests for making you drill down to your nuggets, because it’s really hard. Okay. All right. Number one has to be work with a buddy.
Intentional collaboration. Yes, I’m looking at my number one IC girl. But the difference it makes is massive and I think that everyone listening should try it. Not necessarily in the depth that Deb and I are really, you don’t need to talk every day and have some massive nationwide projects happening.

You don’t have to go that far. Just pick something you really want to do that you haven’t got around to doing. Find someone that you resonate with in some way, and work on that little task, and it may grow from there, or all it may do is achieve that one little task. So that’s number one work with a buddy.

Debbie O’Shea
Number two, batching. I’ve done an episode, couple of episodes on batching, which I actually first heard about through listening to my business podcasts. But the more you batch, the easier it is. What I mean by batching, in case you’ve not come across that before, is it enables you to get into the flow. You just choose one thing you’re working on and you work on that. For example, you’re planning rhythm activities now instead of just going okay, what will I do with grade two to practice to ta ti ti and rest this week? And then you’re on your grade three lesson plans, oh well we’ve learnt tika tika now. So what can I do to practice those known concepts? I wonder could I do it through a song this week? Should we derive a rhythm? Should we do some dictation?

Okay, so then we’re on to grade four. Grade four, now what will I do? We just learnt compound. Okay. Think of all of that brain power. When you can just go okay, week two, I think I’m going to do something with reading flashcards. Good. That’s it. You have now done your rhythm activity for every year level. The next week. I think I have not done this for ages. I bought the fly swats we’re going to use the flashcards again, we’re going to play swat the rhythm, I’m going to put it in the middle, we’re going to have teams, we’re going to come and I’m gonna get them to swat the rhythm that I clap, good. Everyone’s gonna love that. Grade sixes, grade twos, end of grade one up to grade six.

The next one, let’s read a rhythm play along on YouTube. Quickly, I’ll find them all. So in the time that it would take you to do rhythm practice activity in every year level for one week, you’ve actually done your term. So I just cannot recommend batching and the busier I get the more things I batch. You get in the zone, like even podcasting. Not that it will always fall nicely for me at all. Because it doesn’t because of time zones and stuff and you know people’s responsibilities. But even podcasting, you sort of put on some lipstick and the lightings sort of okay, let’s go, let’s get them done. So batching. I’m raving a bit aren’t I Deb? I know that’s not like me is it?

Deb Brydon
Yes. We all expect it and love it.

Debbie O’Shea
Thank you, not sure about love it, but thank you. So we’ve got work with a buddy, batching, keep it fun. That’s my nugget of fabulous. Do you know what, I do it for myself, not just for the kids. Jokes. I used to have a joke of the week. I’ve let that slip, I might put that back in. Like you know really good jokes like what’s brown and sticky? A stick? You know you’re really good at puns, when even your students moan at your jokes. Use toys and stuff. And you know my marvelous music manipulatives course is out with the lovely Deb Brydon, Alisen McLeod and myself. And that is about bringing the fun and the joy into the learning because we learn better that way, the kids learn better that way. And you’re going to like your job more, because it’s fun.

The Importance Of Fun

Deb Brydon
Do you know I also think it reminds you that they are kids. When you see their reaction to these all these fun things, and the joy that it brings them, it does remind you that they are just little kids who really just want to play, and we should be harnessing that.

Debbie O’Shea
Yes. And I think it was when I was speaking to Jeanette Shorey recently on her podcast, I think the joy, I’m going to say something not politically correct here really, but I think the joy is being sucked out of many classrooms with the emphasis on data and assessment and the overwhelm. Like it’s understandable. Teachers, class teachers are overwhelmed. We just need to have fun. And if our room can be the fun room, why not. So have fun.

Debbie O’Shea
I do have one more. I’ve kept it to four. What I wanted to do was give everyone my favourite repertoire, books, or songs, song collections or games. And then I thought, but really, my best advice, my nugget of fabulous is to make sure that you network, and you go to professional development. You do workshops, live workshops, you do webinars, you do all of those things, because that is where you get the best activities. It’s where you get the best repertoire, or do things like the marvelous music manipulatives course.

Deb Brydon
Good idea.

Debbie O’Shea
Great idea. The carts closed for this year though, you’ll have to wait till it’s re-launched. So that’s where you learn the best songs and games. That’s where you’d speak to someone like Deb Brydon, who goes I was with my grade threes and we played Lavender’s Blue and it was so much fun and the games from Lucinda Geoghegan and it’s in this book. And you go, okay, she loved it, it worked. I’ll give it a try. So I think I wanted to give people my favourite books, songs, blah, blah, blah. But my advice is go to workshops, join committees, get involved and you will never, never never be short of excellent repertoire and teaching ideas.

On A Soapbox

Deb Brydon
You know, Debbie, I think I could have almost guessed, and many of your listeners could have almost guessed, what your nuggets of fabulous are. That’s not to say that you’re predictable. But it just shows how true you are to your values and your own why? That that’s your thing and you believe it and you’re passionate about it. So it’s cool. Debbie, I’m gonna give you a chance to get on your soapbox. Now. You don’t often get on a soapbox (laughs). I think Debbie lives on a soapbox.

Debbie O’Shea
I carry it around with me under my arm!

Deb Brydon
But you can have a moment to get on your soapbox. Go for it. I think you might have just been on it already in the nuggets of fabulous. But one more opportunity for a soapbox.

Debbie O’Shea
Oh, I don’t know, Deb I haven’t actually thought what I was gonna say on this bit. Okay, let me give it some thought because like you said I’ve been on my soapbox the whole time. I think I’m going to say to all of my listeners that I would like everybody who hears this to somehow communicate with their world however they can, the importance of music education for everyone but we’re focusing on children here because that’s where we’re working. The importance of music education for every child. And I could say for every child every week couldn’t I? That would link into our campaign nicely.

Deb Brydon
Pretty good slogan.

Debbie O’Shea
Oh, nice slogan. I wonder who thought of that one? Music for every child every week. So my soapbox is that everybody should get on their soapbox as often as possible at their concerts, in their newsletters, to affect people when they meet a politician. Shake their hand. Hello, thank you for the new hall. Oh did you know that our students have music blah, blah, blah, blah. Get in people’s ears and spread the word because it’s got to come from us, the people who work with the children and see the difference, we’ve just got to sell ourselves. We can’t just go I know I’m doing a really good thing for these children. My work will speak for itself. In a way it does, but not enough. Not enough. You can’t sit back and let your work speak for itself. You’ve got to start getting loud about it. So yeah, on my soapbox, get loud about the importance of music education.

The Hundredth Goodbye

Deb Brydon
Love it. Debbie, thank you for your commitment, your passion, your drive, and your can do attitude for getting this podcast going and for connecting all of us, your listeners, with so many fabulous people. And you know I listened to you for some of those years when you were wanting to do a podcast. And sometimes I’m the black hat person and I just look at how much you’re already doing and think Debbie please don’t add another thing in, don’t do podcasts, just relax. But I’m really glad that you did. And I can see how much it floats your boat as well. So thank you from all of us your listeners. Thanks, everyone, for listening.

Debbie O’Shea
Thank you so much for having me Deb.

Deb Brydon
You’re welcome.

Sign-Off

Thank you for joining me for this podcast. Don’t forget, you’ll find the show notes and transcript and all sorts of information on crescendo.com.au. If you’ve enjoyed the podcast or found it valuable, you might like to rate it on your podcast player and leave a review. I’d really appreciate it if you did. All I can be as the best version of me. All you can do is be the best you. Until next time, bye.

Just for Laughs

As we know, laughter relieves stress, don’t lose sight of the funny side of life.
Gee, this is episode 100, I better make it a good joke! Which one should I go for?

I told my suitcase I wasn’t going on holidays this year.

Now I’m dealing with emotional baggage.

That’s so terrible. I’m going to give you a second joke to celebrate my 100th episode.
Mind you I think there are people that would say if I really want to celebrate the 100th episode I’d skip the joke, but no, you get two.
Okay, here’s the second joke. Are you ready?

I think we should ban pre shredded cheese.

Let’s make Australia grate again.

Links Mentioned in the Episode:

🎙️ Episode 100 (Hooray!): The Passion Behind THIS Podcast

Where to find me:

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• Twitter: https://twitter.com/crescendomusic
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbie-o-shea-62a3741b/
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