Recorder Geeks Unite! (Part 1) | 150

Today’s guest is someone who brings joy, creativity, and solid musicianship into every corner of her classroom—and beyond.

Erin Elliott has been sharing the joy of music since 2008 and is currently a K-5 elementary music teacher in northern Indiana. But her reach goes far beyond those school walls—she’s also the teacher-author behind From Do-Re-Mi To You, where she shares practical ideas and inspiration with music educators around the world.

Erin has taught everyone from curious kindergartners to future music teachers at the college level, always with a passion for sparking creativity and laying a strong musical foundation for every learner.

She holds a B.M.E. from the College of Wooster, a Music Certificate in Oboe from Bowling Green State University, and a Master’s in Music Education from the University of Louisville. She’s also Orff-certified through all three levels—thanks to her training at the University of Cincinnati Conservatory of Music.

Outside the music room, Erin is a proud band director’s wife, a mom to two wonderful kids (plus three adorable furbabies), and a self-proclaimed recorder geek. When she’s not teaching, you’ll likely find her with a chai latte in hand, relaxing by the lake in the Adirondack Mountains or tending to her garden.

She’s joining us today to share her “nuggets of fabulous” for managing time, staying energized, and keeping music teaching joyful and efficient—even when the to-do list is long. Get ready for a conversation that’s both practical and inspiring.

Let’s welcome Erin to the podcast!

Resources Mentioned:

• The Napping House 
• Joyful Noise Recorder Curriculum 

Connect with Erin: 

• YouTube
• Instagram
• Website: https://fromdoremitoyou.com/

Where to find me: 

Crescendo Community Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/crescendocommunity
Official Crescendo Page: https://www.facebook.com/CrescendoMusicEd/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/CrescendoMusicEd
Twitter: https://twitter.com/crescendomusic
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbie-o-shea-62a3741b/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/CrescendoDeb

Introduction

Here is the Crescendo Music Education Podcast – Episode 150.

This podcast is being recorded on the lands of the Turrbal people. I acknowledge them as the traditional owners of the land and pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging. They were the first music makers on this land.

If you’d prefer to listen to this episode, click here!

About ‘Read the Episode’: Sometimes, we would rather skim visually than listen to a podcast! That’s a great way to learn too!
The transcript of episode 150 of The Crescendo Music Education Podcast is below.

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Debbie O’Shea 

I would like to welcome to the Crescendo Music Education Podcast Erin Elliott. Hello Erin.

Erin Elliott 

Hi.

Erin’s Bio

Debbie O’Shea 

It is lovely to have you as a guest from the other side of the world. I want to start by reading your bio so that people they maybe have seen your work, or maybe they’ve heard of you From Do-Re-Mi To You and not met the person behind it. So I’ll start with your bio, Erin Elliot has been sharing the joy of music since 2008 and is currently a K-5 elementary music teacher in Northern Indiana, as well as the teacher author behind From Do-Re-Mi To You. With experience teaching everyone from curious Kindergarteners, yeah they’re all really curious, to aspiring College music educators. She delights in sparking creativity and laying a solid musical foundation for every student. Erin earned her BME from the College of Worcester, a Music Certificate in Oboe from Bowling Green State University and her MME from the University of Louisville.

Erin Elliott 

Yep, Louisville.

Debbie O’Shea 

I got it right. She has also completed all three levels of Orff training through the University of Cincinnati, Conservatory of Music. Beyond the classroom Erin is a proud band director’s wife, mum to two children and three fur babies and a self proclaimed recorder geek. She’s happiest with a chai latte in hand enjoying the serenity of Lake George. You’ve got them both there, the recorder and the chai. You set that up well. Lake George in the, oh good heavens.

Erin Elliott 

The Adirondacks mountains.

Debbie O’Shea 

Okay, yes, what she said, and spending time in her garden. So here we are Erin.

Erin Elliott 

Yes, Hi, happy evening for me, happy morning for you.

Debbie O’Shea 

Yes, I’m in your tomorrow. I like saying that to my American guests.

Erin Elliott 

That is so fun.

Debbie O’Shea 

Do you want to know what tomorrows like? Actually, it’s almost starting to get vaguely cool in the mornings now here in Australia.

Erin Elliott 

Oh, it’s cold here. It’s my spring break and it’s 34 degrees outside, which for you is like probably one degree Celsius.

Debbie O’Shea 

It doesn’t get that cold here in the subtropics. All right now that bio was very brief. Would you like to add something to that summary of your work?

Erin Elliott 

Sure. Like I said, I’ve taught anywhere from Kindergarten through College. My first three years were on the high school level as the sole music teacher at a Catholic High School where I was the band director, choir director, taught class piano without a piano lab, guitar instrumental ensemble and musical theater. I was a one woman show and it was a good experience, but my love is on the Elementary level for sure. I think the greatest thing that came out of those three years was meeting my husband.

Debbie O’Shea 

Okay, so did you know before those three years that you aimed for Elementary but that’s the job you got? Or you weren’t sure and doing the High School stuff, you went, Yeah, I belong with the little ones?

Erin Elliott 

So I student taught in Elementary and Middle school. I never had a single field placement in the High School level. Though you’re certified K-12 when you’re in the US for music, so I applied for all Elementary jobs, a couple Middle School band jobs and then two High School jobs, just because they were close by. But when I was first applying for jobs, there was a job shortage for teachers. This was 2008 so I had already turned down one job because the pay was too low and I was worried about turning down a second job. So I took the High School position because it was in my hometown, but it was definitely trial by fire.

I was out of state for a job up in the Adirondack Mountains actually, when I got offered this job, and it literally was my summer job ended one evening after we struck the set for our show. I drove 12 hours in one day to an apartment I had never seen before and I started teacher orientation the next day and had students two days later. Then the day after that, I had all school mass with a choir I had seen for 20 minutes the day before. And I’m not Catholic, I’m Protestant, so it literally was trial by fire.

Debbie O’Shea 

Whoa, okay, and you are still in the profession so high five to you.

Erin Elliott 

I was probably beet red, just so overwhelmed that first day. I told the woman playing piano I had not been to a mass in five years so when it’s time for us to play, play and I will start conducting and I’ll figure this out as I go along.

Debbie O’Shea 

Wow. Okay, so you certainly would have learnt flexibility from that.

Erin Elliott 

Oh, yes.

Debbie O’Shea 

Oh, I know we need to go on because I really want to get to talk recorders with you, but you talked about pay being lower. Don’t you? Sorry I’m speaking here in Australia from an ignorant position of the American system. Do you not have an award where teachers get the same money, like we have an award in each state?

Erin Elliott 

Well, my first job was at a private school, at a Catholic school. So every diocese will set their own pay scale and private schools, especially Catholic schools, are notoriously lower in pay. So the first job that I was offered literally would have qualified me for government housing programs in Ohio, it was really bad.

Debbie O’Shea 

That’s awful.

Erin Elliott 

Yeah. The job that I did take, the pay was better ish, when I decided not to take that first job, the music teacher I would have replaced said something to me that really stuck with me. She said, I don’t blame you, because every teacher at this school is married and this is the job they can afford to have. And it never once crossed my mind. I was single at the time and for those other teachers, it was a job they can afford to have, because it was not a job that they could have and just be on their own.

So when I was applying for other jobs, I set myself a minimum of what I needed to make and the first job that I took had just met that threshold, but I was teaching an overload of classes. I was running the pep band and running the musical and it was not sustainable at all. So I was there for three years before I got married and then went to Grad School.

Debbie O’Shea 

Oh, my goodness, yep, baptism of fire. Oh, if I could use that word in a Catholic school. Oh, my goodness, okay, we will move on, but that’s fascinating. How are you supposed to attract? It’s such hard work. It’s not like you’re being paid to do nothing. So okay, it’s just a low wage. It’s really hard work and it’s an important job. Anyway. Let’s not talk about teacher money, but that was just an interesting side track for me. Sorry. Alright, I like to talk to my guests about gratitude. So for what are you most grateful?

Erin Elliott’s Gratitude

Erin Elliott 

Oh goodness, it depends on the day, but I’m grateful for my students, because there are definitely the challenging kids that will push your buttons every day, but they can still bring so much to the table. Then you’ve got the kids that are just so eager and willing to try anything. My Orff ensemble is going and I’ve got a couple of kids that two, three days a week, they’ll pop in my room and like, Hey, can I practice before I go back to my classroom? They are just so eager to try new things and work really hard. So it’s really been cool to see what they can come up with.

Debbie O’Shea 

Yes, I think that most music teachers would feel the same, but I think we need to take time to make sure you do feel gratitude for the students, and not just feel the frustration, because it helps bring joy to our job.

Erin Elliott 

For sure.

Debbie O’Shea 

Now I want to talk recorders to you. Now I know that recorders are a topic that seem to spark, ah, strong opinions and feelings. You know, the memes on Facebook.

Erin Elliott 

Oh, absolutely.

Debbie O’Shea 

It used to sort of upset me and when you’re talking to people outside of your profession and they say what you do recorders? Oh, no, instruments of torture. I hated that, or they made me do it at Teachers College for a semester, and they just hate it, and they think of the squeaky sqauwky sound. Now those of us who work with recorders, we know that they can be an amazing instrument within our classroom. So you’ve told me that your philosophy of teaching has evolved and that your pedagogy has changed around recorder. So I’d love to hear all about that and I know that people listening would love to hear about recorder in a nice, positive light.

Recorder Karate

Erin Elliott 

Sure, like most of the listeners, I played recorder when I was in Elementary School. I think I played Third Grade and Fourth Grade and I have limited memories, I don’t remember the teaching process, but I remember being at the gym playing recorders, all 40 of us together and getting mad at my classmates for squeaking and squawking because I didn’t think it was that hard. After Elementary School, I really didn’t play at all until College and then I did my semester of methods where I played recorder and then I taught at the High School level. So it just, it kind of fell by the wayside.

So it wasn’t until I went to Grad School where my professor was an Orff person. His name was Rob Amchin. He’s really well known in the Orff circles. I started watching and TAing his Elementary Methods class, where I really got to see how recorder can fit into the natural curriculum of what we do. It’s part of our music making and I was really inspired by that. He introduced me to a teacher in town who ended up becoming a mentor of mine and I had the opportunity to go observe her a few times, and when I got to see her Fourth or Fifth Graders playing recorders. She had, I don’t know in Australia, if you know what Recorder Karate is? If you’ve heard of that before?

Debbie O’Shea 

Yes.

Erin Elliott 

Okay, so she had kind of created her own version of this where she had chosen her own songs. There were belt songs and beat songs and it was just so phenomenal to watch her process, like the kids were so supportive of each other, high fiving each other and helping each other out. Her kids played so so well. Having come from like the band world and the choir world, the secondary music world. I said, Okay, I want my kids to be as good as musicians as these kids. So that’s what I did. I created my own version of recorder karate and I did it with my Fourth and Fifth Graders.

There were a lot of songs kids could earn belts and beads and a lot of kids were really excited, and I had a lot of really good players that were learning a lot of notes and some hard music for Fourth and Fifth Grade. But as the years went on, I felt like I was burning out and I realised that some of my students were burning out and it was not something that was sustainable in the long run. I noticed with my population, because what I didn’t say before was that mentor teacher worked at a really prestigious private school where none of her kids had IEPs, none of her kids were years behind in reading or coming as an ELL learner, which is English Language Learner.

So I had a completely different population of kids, not to say that they can’t do amazing things, but I had such a wide gap in abilities that my really high kids were getting frustrated because they really needed help with the songs that they were playing because they were so advanced. Then I had my low kids that needed a lot of extra guidance and hand holding to learn the songs, and then I would have the kids that were absolutely struggling or coming in new for the year, never having played recorder before.

Erin Elliott 

So I found myself stretched way too thin trying to do too many songs and too many things at once. And when it came to assessing students, every year I had more and more kids that just weren’t comfortable playing in class or in front of me or in front of their peers. So I had the great idea of like, well, you can record a video on Google Classroom and I will assess it later, which seemed like a great idea at the time.

But how my schedule was set up, I didn’t have time to listen to them during the school day, so I was listening to over 100 videos a week at home with a toddler. That’s not okay in my book. And the worst part about it was half of those kids, if they didn’t pass a song, they didn’t read the comments that I wrote and they would just send another video with the same mistakes the next week. So when COVID hit, it hit like a week and a half before my Fourth and Fifth Graders were supposed to do their music program, which was such a bummer.

But right after that music program, we were supposed to start our Recorder Karate unit and I was relieved. I was happy that we weren’t doing recorders. That really shocked me when I really thought about it, I played with a recorder consort. I dressed up in Renaissance clothing. I loved teaching recorders, or I thought I did and I had to really think, okay, when we come back, when we are allowed to play, do I want to do recorders anymore?

And I said, Yes, but I knew that I did not want to do it the way that I did, because I had really kind of sucked the fun out of it. It was all about learning a song for the sake of checking it off. I stopped doing improvisation, I stopped doing children’s literature, I stopped doing movement. All the fun stuff I did in my Orff levels, there just wasn’t time for it. I don’t know about Australia, but in the United States, we love standardised tests. We love testing our students and when we come back from spring break next week, we start our big state test and I realised I was teaching to the test. I was teaching songs just for the sake of checking it off and that wasn’t right.

So my philosophy now is I want kids to be good recorder players, but I’m not going to be so stressed about how many notes they learn. I want them to experience the recorder in many different ways. I want them to learn how to read music, but I also want them to learn how to improvise. I want them to move. I want them to be creative. And my overall goal was not to check off a song and just say, hey, we played this song, but I wanted them to think of what’s next? What else can we do to the song? And that ultimately became my goal.

Debbie O’Shea 

Oh, my goodness, okay, I have to stop you there. There was just so much in that. I do my own little version, or actually, the school that I’ve just left, Hello. Oh, I miss you. I call it rainbow rockets, because oh surprise a lot of my stuff’s based on colour. Okay, and it was working very well. But I tell you, when you’re talking about the spread. I just used bits of wool, but tied on the end, I had fabulous, advanced kids. They were banging on the door every lunch break that I was around.

Can we come in and work on that? They had these big, fluffy things on the end of their recorder, so many levels. I had to keep making stuff up for them. They were soaring, amazing. Then there were, your sort of average kids and then there was always those ones at the bottom that I just didn’t get to spend the time I needed with them. Yeah, and they might have had one or none and this spread that just got wider. I’m all for differentiation and I want to be able to let those kids fly, but at what expense? So I so hear you.

Erin Elliott 

Especially when you have kids that have a lot of extra needs that will never play on the same level as the rest of your kids. It’s one thing to give out little rewards or work on a song, but if that’s all you do is learn a song, check it off. Learn a song, check it off. Those kids will never keep up. I’ve got one student in Fourth Grade that I’m starting that literally does not have the dexterity to play G and E. It’s just her hands. I can’t expect her to play the same way as her classmates. We can set goals, but I don’t want her to feel excluded from what the rest of the class is doing.

Debbie O’Shea 

I’m with you.

Erin Elliott 

It’s not to say that you can’t do Recorder Karate and have it be successful and meaningful for your students. I think a lot of teachers do, but I took what I saw another teacher do and I tried to apply it, not thinking that we have two very different populations. She saw her students more than I saw mine. I just could not make it work with my students without burning myself out or burning my students out.

Debbie O’Shea 

Yes and then making a rod for your own back with that I’ll mark it at home. Sounds like a great solution, but yeah, just doesn’t work. It’s very telling that you were relieved at COVID to not want to. You’re a self confessed recorder, you called yourself a recorder geek. I was thinking, a recorder nerd and here you are saying, oh, oh, thank goodness I don’t have to start that unit.

Sign-Off

Thank you for joining me for this podcast. Don’t forget, you’ll find the show notes and transcript and all sorts of information on crescendo.com.au. If you’ve enjoyed the podcast or found it valuable, you might like to rate it on your podcast player and leave a review. I’d really appreciate it if you did. All I can be as the best version of me. All you can do is be the best you. Until next time, bye.

Just for Laughs

As we know, laughter relieves stress, don’t lose sight of the funny side of life.
What do you call a cow who can play the guitar? Why of course, he’s a moosician.