Leading with Influence – Joel Copeland (Part 1) | 153

Hey friends, and welcome back to the Crescendo Music Education Podcast —the podcast where we explore the heart and craft of music education, one inspiring conversation at a time.

Today’s episode is a special one. I had the privilege of hearing our guest speak at the HALT Summit in Canberra, and his keynote left a lasting impression. There was something about the way he spoke—grounded, clear, and deeply human—that stayed with me. He reminded us that impact doesn’t end at the classroom walls… in fact, that’s often where it begins.

Joel Copeland is a distinguished music educator and leader, currently serving as the Principal of the ACT Instrumental Music Program. He’s led music programs across diverse educational settings, served as National President of Kodály Australia, and in 2021, he earned national certification as a Lead Teacher—a significant milestone that’s shaped his approach to leadership and influence.

Whether you’re a music teacher, a school leader, or just someone who believes in the quiet power of connection, this episode is filled with wisdom, encouragement, and a few “nuggets of fabulous” you won’t want to miss.

Let’s get into it. Here’s my conversation with Joel Copeland.

Resources Mentioned:

• Dr. Anita Collins – Bigger Better Brains

Connect with Joel: 

• LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-copeland/ 

Where to find me: 

Crescendo Community Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/crescendocommunity
Official Crescendo Page: https://www.facebook.com/CrescendoMusicEd/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/CrescendoMusicEd
Twitter: https://twitter.com/crescendomusic
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbie-o-shea-62a3741b/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/CrescendoDeb

Introduction

Here is the Crescendo Music Education Podcast – Episode 153.

Debbie O’Shea 

Welcome to this episode of the Crescendo Music Education Podcast. This is part one of my chat with Joel Copeland, who lives in Canberra in the ACT, here in Australia. He has so much to offer. I think if you don’t know Joel, by the end of this episode and next week’s part two, you’re going to just love him as much as me, because he’s just such a lovely person, fabulous music educator and he works quite a bit in the leadership field now. It’s great to have him influencing more educators and having more power and influence within systems. So I’m so grateful for that.

So Joel, keep going. It’s just good to have you there. So in this episode, we’re going to hear quite a bit about his journey to becoming a lead teacher and how he sees the importance of teachers helping other teachers. He obviously is very passionate about our profession. It’s so lovely to listen to. It will fill your soul with gladness. You’ll be happy that you’re a teacher after listening to Joel. So enjoy part one.

This podcast is being recorded on the lands of the Turrbal people. I acknowledge them as the traditional owners of the land and pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging. They were the first music makers on this land.

If you’d prefer to listen to this episode, click here!

About ‘Read the Episode’: Sometimes, we would rather skim visually than listen to a podcast! That’s a great way to learn too!
The transcript of episode 153 of The Crescendo Music Education Podcast is below.

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Debbie O’Shea 

Welcome to the Crescendo Music Education Podcast, today I am joined by Joel Copeland. Hello Joel.

Joel Copeland 

Hey, Debbie. How are you doing?

Debbie O’Shea 

I’m wonderful. You’re looking really well, so I’m assuming you’re doing well.

Joel Copeland 

Absolutely. Yes, we’re very close to the end of the term, so I’m not sure when this will go to air for your listeners, but I’m feeling ready for a break, but energised after a great term.

Debbie O’Shea 

Yes, and you’re coming to me from Canberra.

Joel Copeland 

I am from beautiful Canberra, Ngunnawal country. Down here, it’s gorgeous, nice and chilly, but the sun’s trying to peek through at the moment, I’m optimistic, but it is a beautiful place down here.

Debbie O’Shea 

It does get really cold in Canberra.

Joel Copeland 

It does. It does.

Joel’s Bio

Debbie O’Shea 

I’m going to start by reading just a really small snippet of a bio about you in a minute, but it was lovely because I caught up with you briefly at the HALT summit in Canberra earlier this year and I loved that you got to have a little speech to all of these HAT and Lead Teachers from across Australia. That was lovely. You spoke very eloquently and it was a good little promotion of music too I might say. It was good.

So here is just a little intro about you. Joel Copeland is a distinguished music educator and leader, currently the principal of the ACT instrumental music program. He served as National President of Kodály Australia and has led music programs across diverse educational settings. In 2021 Joel achieved national accreditation as a Lead Teacher, a milestone that shaped his leadership journey. Now I’m sure there is so much more that could be in your bio, but what would you like to add to that little snapshot of your work?

Joel Copeland 

Again, thank you. I’m really, really grateful for the invitation to come and have a chat with you Debbie and thank you for the work you do. It is truly incredible and we need more of it, but you’re doing amazing stuff. So thank you. It’s interesting you asked that because recently I was working with a group of teachers and we did this sort of standard let’s go around the circle and everyone introduce themselves, and what school do you work at, and what’s your position, and what year levels do you teach?

I had a bit of a moment as we were coming right around the circle about identity and how often in these spaces we can jump quickly to where we work, what positions we’ve held, all of those sorts of things and for me, it was a really reflective moment around well actually, I like to introduce myself a bit differently these days.

Whilst work is an incredibly important part of my life, it doesn’t define who I am. So the only thing I would add is that for me, my own personal journey is shaped around being really committed to bringing joy to people’s lives and uplifting others. I am a proud Dad to three little humans. Really proud husband, son, brother as well and very fortunate to be privileged to live the life that we do here in Australia as well. So yeah, but obviously, I have been really fortunate in my professional capacities to have some great opportunities to work with incredible people, wonderful young humans as well. And also just that privilege of working in the Educational Leadership space as well and being able to amplify that impact, I think is something that I’m really grateful for as well. That’s kind of me.

Debbie O’Shea 

That is wonderful and I love how you bring us back to what’s actually really important. You know, if you had to choose between your family and your career, there’s no choice, is there?

Joel Copeland 

No, it depends on what time of the day you ask me that question. But yeah, that’s it. Work is really important and to be fortunate enough to find that vocation, that calling, many people don’t, so I’m really really conscious of how fortunate I am to be in a space to work in a job that I love, but yeah, that’s it. You go home at the end of the day when you do and that’s the reason we live is for our people and our loved ones.

Debbie O’Shea 

Yes, and you are right. We are so lucky that we love our work and what we do. I have some people very close to me who really don’t know what they want to do and it’s very difficult. Whereas I know what I want to do and I’m powering towards it.

Joel Copeland 

Absolutely.

Debbie O’Shea 

You’re very similar, very similar. Looking back, what has been a real highlight of your journey as a music educator?

Joel’s Career Highlights

Joel Copeland 

 This was a tough, tough question I have to say, because there are so many moments. I guess when you’re working with young people and particularly with the transformative power of education and then add music on top of that, and the arts, there’s just so many, so many moments. But the one I will share was a real turning point for me in my journey.

I’d come four years through my Bachelor of Music Education degree and I’d done some prac placements out in a variety of different schools and settings, and I’d arrived on my final internship fourth year, I was spending a whole term at this school in Canberra, at Radford College and I came in full of energy, ready to go, really excited. I wasn’t wholly met with great enthusiasm from the person who was supposed to be looking after me for that time. In fact, actually I do recall them asking me, Are you sure you’re not a drama teacher? I think that they had some not wonderfully positive experiences with their previous prac students in music.

So anyway, I arrived there and the teacher sort of reluctantly took me for a bit of a tour around the school. Anyway, another teacher there in the department who was the Head of Co-curricular Music I think at the time, incredible human being named Mathew Irving. He felt sorry for me as he saw me being sort of taken around the faculty and he just took me under his wing and said, Come on, mate, let’s go. We’ve got Year Five music, in we hop and off I went with Mat. Little did I know that that was really the turning point for me. It completely changed the trajectory of my career as a teacher.

I’d also say, he really inspired me to want to challenge myself in the leadership space as well. So I went into that Year Five classroom with Mat and up until that point I’d been doing secondary music, so working with Year Seven to Twelve students. So I went into this classroom and the students were all sitting in a circle, no books, no tables, no anything. They’re all sitting there in a circle, very vulnerably. I sort of thought I could just hang out the back of the room and watch what’s going on and he said, No, no, up, you come. He pulled me up a chair and so I sat in the circle, and he just launched in.

There was no time for anything, no mucking around. It was singing, moving, playing, the laughter and the joy in that room was just absolutely outrageous. I was so out of my comfort zone, I wanted to just shrink into a little ball. I’d never seen anything like this, never. The only singing I’d really ever done up until that point in my own music journey or music education was probably Khe San at the pub at 1am in a covers band, like that was probably the gist.

So this incredible master teacher, Mat Irving, he’s in there singing, who’s that yonder, singing these songs that I just thought, No way mate, you’re not getting me on these repertoire cards. I just can’t do that. But I saw in that moment how incredible it was. We talk about engagement, we talk about students being challenged and pushed and rigorous classroom activity and experiential learning. There was just so much good stuff going on, but also the connections that this guy was building with those students, that for me was just absolute mastery in practice. Mat’s gone on to, he’s currently principal at Great Southern Grammar over in Perth and doing amazing things.

But I remind him every now and again how influential he was for me in my career. It was only a couple of weeks until I sort of warmed into it and sort of started to build my skills in that space and as you said I’ve gone on since then to really be a champion for Kodály music education in this country. And yeah, as I said, it really changed the trajectory of my teaching career. I don’t know where I’d be, how I’d be teaching, what sort of an impact I would or could have had, had I not been fortunate to meet Mat at that moment. But I’m just so grateful that I did. Yeah, so for me I guess that’s probably the one that really stands out.

Debbie O’Shea 

Wow. Did you major in an instrument in your study?

Joel Copeland 

Yeah, so jazz saxophone was my thing. So I went through University of Canberra and ANU School of Music, so was in with all the jazz students doing saxophone through that time and again had some great mentors in that space as well. We were, I guess, lumped in with all the performance students. So there were two of us doing education as well and we did all those same subjects in the performance degree, but a couple of education subjects on top of that.

The great thing was with that Bachelor of Education in Secondary Music, was that we got to go on placements and pracs throughout the four years. So we got a little taster of it and we built up and we got a chance to sort of experience life in schools, in classrooms and just build up that observation, to teaching a couple of lessons, to teaching a full day and I think that was really powerful part of my of journey.

Debbie O’Shea 

Well, I’m very grateful to Mat for helping you to pivot, because I know many of us have benefited from that pivot.

Joel Copeland 

Yes. It’s hard sometimes to think about the impact that you’ve had and we often go straight to the children in the classroom. But one thing that I certainly love about educational leadership is this, it is a great privilege to work in that space because your impact can be amplified immensely. You change that one teacher’s life, that changes 1000’s of children that that teacher goes on to work with and then that teacher is building and growing other leaders in that space too.

I know we’ll come to it and the journey around HALT accreditation and what that means and looks like, but I think that is a really important part of the ecosystem of our education landscape in this country that we really, as much as we can shine a light on that and keep those good things happening, the better outcomes for the students across the board.

Debbie O’Shea 

Yes, and I’m looking forward to digging into that, because I feel the same. It’s the mentors that we meet along the way that really shape us as educators and then as you say, in our case 1000’s of students within the space of a couple of years we can then impact. But before we get on to your deep dive into your Lead Teacher journey, because I’m just very interested in that as a HAT myself, you are the level above for those people who don’t know that. But we’ll get into that. First, I just want to talk about gratitude, because I love asking all of my guests, for what are you most grateful in your work or personal life right now? And perhaps some other individuals that have made a big difference to you aside from Mat.

Joel’s Gratitude

Joel Copeland 

It’s awesome that you asked this question Debbie, because you know what it’s like working in schools and systems. For teachers and school leaders who are so heavily invested in the work they do and it’s all about those young people, and in leadership it’s about the older people as well. It’s just this human business and it can be really draining. So I think being able to practice gratitude and shifting that lens can have a really positive benefit on our lives. So something that my wife and I have been really practising as much as we can since having children, I would say it’s really changed for us.

Something definitely in the workspace as well that I try and model and practice with my teams too. I mentioned the privilege of living in this country and living in Canberra. We actually live in a tiny little village just outside of Canberra called Sutton. It’s about 200 people there and it’s a short drive out of Canberra, but just a really beautiful place to live.

So grateful for that and for my family, my incredible wife, who is so supportive of every crazy endeavour I want to go on because I don’t always think immediately about the impacts and the knock on effects of going Yes, I’ll do that. Yes. Let’s jump into this. So really grateful that she is so supportive of me and also able to bring me back to Earth when sometimes the first thing that comes out of my mouth is yes. So just thinking about that balance is really careful, so really grateful for family and health as well, I think. You try and do all the right things, sleep well, eat well, exercise. My wife being a dietician is very helpful for all of those things as well.

So yeah, just grateful for all of those things. In the workplace as I mentioned, I think being in a position of leadership is a privilege. We’re caretakers, custodians of these roles and other people will step in after we do. But just holding that responsibility for the people, for the students, for the teachers, for our community, for our parents, I take that really seriously, so I’m grateful for that opportunity. Because being able to have that pressure or that stress I think it is a privilege and something that I’m certainly grateful for.

Debbie O’Shea 

That’s lovely, that’s lovely. I could do with a dietician spouse.

Joel Copeland 

I know a good one. You can’t have her though.

HALT

Debbie O’Shea 

She’s taken, I can’t. Okay. It’s time to get into Lead now. For those people who are listening who don’t know about the Highly Accomplished and Lead Teacher accreditation within Australia, if you are within Australia, please find out about them, because I think we should know about them. If you’re outside of Australia, it is basically and Joel, you can correct me I’m going to try and summarise here off the top of my head.

Joel Copeland 

Go for it Debbie.

Debbie O’Shea 

You basically apply for this accreditation through AITSL, the Australian governing body. It is without understating it, an onerous task to prove that you are operating at either Highly Accomplished or Lead level in all of the descriptors. It’s quite a big thing to prove that you are a HAT or a Lead and in our case, in Queensland, we actually do get a pay rise within our system.

We don’t always get pay rises in other states, but you do get this accreditation. Joel is one of those rare breed called Lead Teacher, so he’s proven he’s absolutely at the top. We have less Lead Teachers here in Queensland and when Deb and I applied, we went we’re just going to go for HAT, because there’s three Lead Teachers in our system, so we don’t think we’ve got much chance. So Joel is a Lead. All right, so we’re going to talk about your path to becoming, well it’s not really becoming.

I mean, you were obviously a Lead Teacher but becoming an official accredited Lead Teacher. I want to talk to you about what motivated you and what you learnt and how the process has shaped your work. That’s basically what I want to dig into a little bit. So I heard you at the HALT Summit and you talked about a little bit about your inspiration. One of the things you said was that classroom walls weren’t the boundary of your impact or our impact as HALTs. So HALT is by the way, HAT and Lead Teacher, HALT is the abbreviation. So can you talk to us about when you first realised it and how important that is in that whole HALT ethos?

Becoming a HAT

Joel Copeland 

Yeah, it’s an incredibly challenging process, I have to say. But for me I hadn’t really, if I’m brutally honest, I think I got the email that all staff at the school I was at got to sort of say, just checking where you’re at with your accreditation, or who needs to go from graduate to proficient and whatever. And I actually couldn’t remember where I was up to with any of that. So I think I went back to the teacher supporting us in that school and said, am I at the stage where I need to do the next one, or am I sort of free to roam?

And anyway, I was in the free to roam zone, but she sort of suggested to me maybe I might like to have a look at the HALT so the Highly Accomplished or Lead Teacher levels and I did some digging into it. What I really liked about it was, I guess I’d sort of got to the point in my teaching career as a classroom teacher, where I was really looking for ways in which I could hold up that mirror. So how am I actually going? You sort of start to get comfortable after a while, you maybe shift schools, or you try moving to a different type of curriculum or different year levels.

I kind of felt I was sort of getting to a point where I really wanted that mirror held up to my practice and this just looked like the perfect opportunity to do it. I am always pretty keen on a challenge as well and I think this mentor teacher at the time had said that there were no other Lead Teachers in the school. In fact, actually no other Highly Accomplished or Lead Teachers in the school at that time, until the next principal turned up. Actually, she is a HAT, Highly Accomplished Teacher. So that was it, I guess. I looked into it and then thought, let’s give it a crack.

Growing up, and many of your listeners will probably resonate with this as well. But going through the AMEB sort of system, where you had that thing to strive towards, I’m going to do my grade three on my clarinet this year, then saxophone next year. I’m going to do grade four. Play all your scales and then you turn up and you demonstrate. Growing up that was something I was really driven towards wanting to achieve. So for me, I guess this kind of felt like within the teaching profession, I guess something that you can test yourself against in terms of the national standards, Professional Standards for Teachers and what they look like at that level.

As you mentioned I think, and have spoken about already today, is that idea of impact beyond the classroom and the Highly Accomplished and Lead Teacher standards as part of that accreditation, which is a national accreditation, is all about how not only do we as teachers in our classrooms, how do we meet those standards, but how do we support colleagues, or guide or lead our colleagues to meet those standards? So that is the real beauty and the challenge in going after this accreditation, because it’s quite a tricky thing to do, to flip that lens around. Okay, well, I’m fantastic at doing X, Y and Z, whatever the descriptor is. But how have I been supporting my colleague to be fantastic at that? So what’s the impact?

How can I show and demonstrate the impact that I can have in my practice on my colleague and then how do I know the impact that’s then having on the students that my colleague teaches? So really that sort of process of supporting colleagues, that really resonated with me and something that I wanted to jump in and challenge myself with. I was fortunate, I guess that 2020 I think was the year that I was going to try and knock this all over and in the ACT because there’s, I can’t remember off the top of my head, edit this out of the podcast and put the real answer in later Debbie, but like, maybe 37 descriptors all up, or something like that, across the standards. But yeah, thinking about breaking those all down and in the ACT we actually do them in modules.

So in one term, you’ll do the first module which is just standard one and two, which has six descriptors and seven descriptors, or whatever it is. Then you get some feedback on that and you pass that, then you can go onto two and then you do the next couple of descriptors, and then you go into three and you do the last three. And so I really enjoyed that being broken down, because I know talking with colleagues who’ve been through the process before, it used to be, and maybe it still is in some states, but the full whack, you do all of them and you submit it and you pass, or you fail. Did you do that?

Debbie O’Shea 

Yes, and in fact, they’re only just now looking at changing it and you don’t know how you’re going, you have to do the entire lot and then go, fingers crossed I did the right thing.

Joel Copeland 

That is really tricky. The ACT model is fantastic and I would definitely advocate for that for other states and jurisdictions. Because it just gives you an opportunity to get that pulse check at the end of term, rather than going the whole way through which is a lot of work and a lot of commitment and investment in time and energy and your colleagues have got to support you in that process too, because you need people who are going to act as referees for you, who are going to proof and guide and support you. So you really are leaning on other people to help you through that process. So yeah, now that ACT being able to do it in sections, fantastic. So I really loved that.

Yeah. So I guess the pandemic hit then in 2020 obviously. So all of the big, massive international tours and concerts and things we had planned in that year were off the table and sort of in and out of lock-downs. I found myself with a little bit of extra time, because there was the classroom teaching between 8.30 and 3.30 that we were focused on. There were no ensemble rehearsals and those things. So I actually had a bit of time to really sit and think deeply about my practice and how it aligned with those descriptors at that career stage, at Lead Teacher. The other great thing about Lead Teacher is that you need to have a lead initiative as well.

So it has to be something that is sort of whole school wide project that you’ve jumped into and you’ve led. So I really enjoyed that challenge of finding an example of something within my work that I could use to demonstrate, I guess, the skill and practice at that level. So, yeah, I would highly recommend it. I mean, there’s a lot of people and you would know this as well Debbie, that maybe have the conversation with you about, well it is a lot of work, what’s the benefit of doing it? I’m in this state or I’m at this level, I don’t get a pay rise from it. So why would I do it?

Actually as I said, my motivation was twofold. One was the great opportunity to hold up the mirror and reflect on my practice. But also it was a little bit of, well I knew it was hard to get so I actually kind of liked that challenge and I went after it. So I think everybody’s motivated by different things. But I can hand on heart say, throughout my career, all the professional learning that I’ve done, it’s one of the best things I’ve done for my practice as a classroom teacher and as an educational leader in that space as well. I think it’s super powerful. It is worth every minute of the work and the time you put into it, which is substantial. It’s a very rigorous process.

You could argue that we have 1000s and 1000s of incredible teachers out there in our schools across Australia who are operating at that Highly Accomplished and Lead level that don’t do the accreditation. That’s fantastic. I would love to see as we move forward, we continue to grow and build this network of HALTs in every state. The overarching vision has to be that we have HALTs in every school who are leading professional learning, that are driving the standards. That are always trying to innovate, looking for new and creative ways to do things and not necessarily always the ones who go on to formal leadership roles.

I think the power is still in the HALTs that we have that are in there, in the classroom, on the ground with the kids and with the teachers each and every day. I think there’s incredible power and benefits to the leadership and the types of leadership that those teachers show each and every day. So it’s not about a badge or a position, it’s about how we support and encourage our colleagues to be the best that we can be as a profession.

So yeah, I just thought it was an awesome process and interestingly, I just got my email about having to renew it now, because I’m coming up to five years next year, so I don’t think it’s as daunting as it’s maybe previously been. I think it’s just a smaller snapshot of ensuring that your practice is still at that level. So then you get renewed for another five years.

Debbie O’Shea 

I’ve just finished renewal, so I must have got my HAT one year before you got Lead. The states are all different but it took over a year to a year and a half of solid work to do my application. But I just want to double back on a couple of things that you said. I could not agree more about it being a mirror, about self reflection. In fact, that’s its beauty as far as I’m concerned, it’s a self reflection tool and I know going through the process there were areas in my practice that I wouldn’t have examined closely if I didn’t have to meet all of those descriptors. So for example, if we go to the 1.4 and 2.4, I still remember the indigenous ones. So the indigenous students, teaching Indigenous students and teaching about or embedding indigenous perspectives in the curriculum.

I always think I’ve always done something, I’ve not ignored it, but I tell you what being really honest with myself, was I doing enough? The answer was, No, I certainly was not. So I think just as a little example from myself, it’s made me much more aware now of what I do in that sort of space. So as a mirror as you put it, it’s an incredibly valuable process, because my work has always been in quite specific areas, such as music pedagogy and I think we get quite good in our little silo, but we need to reflect on a larger scale sometimes.

Joel Copeland 

Yeah, and Debbie, it’s the whole picture of what a teacher looks at and that’s what those descriptors are so great at and why this process is so powerful, because I’ve got probably 10 examples of what you’ve just mentioned then as well where I got to a descriptor and thought, Oh, yes, I should be doing that and I’m probably not doing it as well as I thought I might have been. Without going through the process, you may still arrive at some of those reflective moments, but it’s just an intentional opportunity for you to look at that and then go, what evidence do I have to support my practice in that level, in that descriptor, in that area, to this standard?

So yeah, 100% it’s just the things we do really well and you’ll absolutely see them and you’ll get celebrated for them. And the things that you can then identify, really areas I need to shift the dial on in terms of my practice in this space. How can I do it, think critically around it and how do I capture the impact of that on my colleagues and the students? Yeah, that’s why it’s so great.

Debbie O’Shea 

Yeah, I agree and I also believe that the whole process was set up to keep the good practising classroom teachers in the classroom, a way to reward good classroom practice without promoting people out of the classroom. I believe that’s what it was set up for. It’s certainly the way I see it. So it’s to reward people who want to still keep working with kids but help make impact from where we are. Help our colleagues from the ground.

Joel Copeland 

Absolutely.

Debbie O’Shea 

Grass roots. Yeah. So I think we’re on the same page. So were there any specific challenges that come to mind when you think about the process?

HALT Challenges

Joel Copeland 

Apart from finding the time to do it, although I have mentioned, it was during the pandemic, so I had a solve for that. Yeah. I mean, knowing that you’re sort of doing these things when you’re looking at the descriptors is one thing, but having really great artefacts that prove that you do it is the next thing. So not only do you need to be operating at that sort of level in the classroom and in your practice more holistically, but you then need to get pretty nifty at being able to locate and curate the portfolio so that those bits of evidence are really, really clear.

I’ve sort of since gone on to train as an assessor, so now I assess Highly Accomplished and Lead Teacher portfolios, which is awesome as well by the way, and would encourage people to jump into that too. Because I get to see great practice all the time, by looking at these portfolios and meeting these people and going on site visits. So that’s really great. So yeah, it’s just a great opportunity to be able to jump in and do those things.

So challenges. Yeah, I got a bit frustrated at the start because you’ve really got to practice. How do I write an annotation so it’s really clear and I utilise those little words that they allow you to write to accompany that artefact, which demonstrates my practice at that level. And then how do I show the impact on my colleague and the impact then on my colleagues’ children? That demonstrates that I have, yes, achieved that descriptor at this level, that’s probably part of the challenge. But you get better at it. You go to information sessions and I rode solo on mine. I couldn’t find anybody to jump on board with me, a colleague.

But I would definitely recommend if there’s a couple of you in a school do it together, sit down grab a coffee, a glass of wine, whatever it is and talk through your ideas. Well, what sort of evidence do you have that you could demonstrate this with? Oh, great. Because I led this excursion, or I rewrote this program, or we did a full review of that pastoral care policy and that’ll work really well here, and trying to link them together. So one artefact could tick a box for that descriptor and it could also tick a box for that descriptor. So it’s trying to get creative around how you actually evidence all of these things.

Debbie O’Shea 

I think actually, that probably is the hardest thing to get your head around. What even is good evidence and the number of things that I know I discarded as I was finding out, going, Oh, well, that’s really just a testimonial, isn’t it? That’s not evidence. How many things do you have to discard? Because you go all right, this teacher might be emailing me saying how great this event was, or how much they appreciate my work, but it’s not evidence and I agree it’s so hard to get your head around that, and yes, make the most of your limited words and your limited number of artefacts. So yeah, again, that is skill in itself. I didn’t know you were an assessor. That’s interesting to know.

Joel Copeland 

It’s fun.

Sign-Off

Thank you for joining me for this podcast. Don’t forget, you’ll find the show notes and transcript and all sorts of information on crescendo.com.au. If you’ve enjoyed the podcast or found it valuable, you might like to rate it on your podcast player and leave a review. I’d really appreciate it if you did. All I can be as the best version of me. All you can do is be the best you. Until next time, bye.

Just for Laughs

As we know, laughter relieves stress, don’t lose sight of the funny side of life.
Did you know that when farmers party, they turn up the beet?