Joe Twist’s Journey Through Film and Concert Music (Part 2) | 115

Welcome back to the Crescendo Education Podcast where we continue our captivating conversation with the acclaimed Australian composer and arranger, Joe Twist.

Get ready for another round of inspiring insights and behind-the-scenes revelations as we continue our exploration of Joe Twist’s remarkable musical world. Let’s dive in!

Biography:
Australian composer/arranger Joe Twist is one of the most ‘in demand’ composers in Australia and abroad (Limelight Magazine). Straddling film music and concert music arenas, his music crosses genres including ancient vocal music, opera, contemporary orchestral music, jazz, music theatre and cabaret. Twist has received wide acclaim for his music for film and television including the successful animated series Bluey, as well as arrangements and orchestrations for many major motion pictures produced in Hollywood. He has created music for many renowned international artists and ensembles such as Moby and The Wiggles, and his work have been performed and recorded by the world’s greatest orchestras, including collaborations with The Los Angeles Philharmonic, The Hollywood Scoring Orchestra and all major Symphony Orchestras in Australia. Twist’s works appear on numerous commercial recordings including Twist’s own album Dancing With Somebody.

For full biography click HERE. 

Stay in touch with Joe:

• Website: https://joetwist.com/
• Facebook
• X
• Soundcloud
• YouTube
• Spotify

Links Mentioned in this Episode:
Grumpiest Boy in the World
SingScore – Joe Twist

Where to find me:
Crescendo Community Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/crescendocommunity
Official Crescendo Page: https://www.facebook.com/CrescendoMusicEd/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/CrescendoMusicEd
Twitter: https://twitter.com/crescendomusic
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbie-o-shea-62a3741b/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/CrescendoDeb

Introduction

Here is the Crescendo Music Education Podcast – Episode 115.

This podcast is being recorded on the lands of the Turrbal people. I acknowledge them as the traditional owners of the land and pay my respects to elder’s past, present and emerging. They were the first music makers on this land.

If you’d prefer to listen to this episode, click here!

About ‘Read the Episode’: Sometimes, we would rather skim visually than listen to a podcast! That’s a great way to learn too!
The transcript of episode 115 of The Crescendo Music Education Podcast is below.

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Debbie O’Shea 

One of my questions was like, I don’t speak to many people who work full time as a composer. Most composers in Australia work and then they work as a composer as a passion project, you know, Annie Kwok and people like that. They have other jobs. So when I’m talking to a full time composer and a successful well known one like you, I’d be interested to know how much is slog and how much is glory? Because you know reality, we know the glory bits. It’s not what it’s like all the time.

Slog Versus Glory

Joe Twist 

Not at all. It’s all slog really.

Debbie O’Shea 

It’s all slog.

Joe Twist 

No. Well, look, most of it is, let’s face it, I guess what I want to say, I feel like I do kind of have a day job, although it’s kind of a weird one that kind of comes and goes. I mean, yeah, I am full time composing. I’m not teaching or anything at the moment. I really think the fact that I do different things, like I’ve got a TV show I work on and I get commissions, is the only reason why I’m able to pay the bills. I feel like if I didn’t have the TV and the film element, which I’ve worked really hard particularly through my 30s, I went to America and lived over there for years.

If I hadn’t sort of nurtured that, I’d probably just be doing choral music but I’d probably have to have another job. And by the way, watch this space, I mean I’m always waiting for this point where kind of the luck dries up when it comes to big grand commissions like Watershed or TV shows like Bluey that I get to work on and just work that keeps coming in. One day it’ll all dry up and I’ll be either knocking on a private school door or getting a Dip Ed or going to a university.

Just to be frank with your audience, like that’s kind of where it’s quite likely to go at some point. But I’m 42 now and for 20 years odd, along with being a student at different times. I am able to just sustain doing all this kind of work, I mean and also, along with a lot of arrangements. You’ve probably seen that I did arrangements for Moby, which isn’t really composing work. I mean, I still put parts of a hat on, we often talk about putting different hats on as musicians and when you’re eclectic too, I put my film music hat on, I put my mixing engineering hat on, but then I put on my choral hat on with voice types and then I put my piano hat on for writing.

How do I write a nice piano part? So all these different things at the same time. So I’m just lucky that between the arranging and also for many years I’ve sung in churches, that’s like a little bit of paying bills money.

I had a lovely job at a fabulous Episcopal Church in America where I sang full time as a staff singer in a church. So it’s not like I’ve always been full time working, but it’s been close to it for quite a while, now it is that way, yeah. But it is a lot of slog. I have to get an accountant and doing taxes as a sole trader is tricky. As I’m sure it is for tradies, it’s sort of similar. It’s just that I don’t, sort of go out and fix toilets, three or four or five a day, I’ll get a lump sum for something I did a month ago or two months ago and then that’s like I live on that and what have you. Royalties help, I must admit.

That’s probably where film music kind of helps with that as well. So, yeah, I mean, look, I’m giving you a lot of like nuts and bolts here. Maybe that will, I kind of want to take off the sheen of the idea that I wake up every day with a quill and pot of coffee and write a grand symphony. So, yeah, in the end it’s still real life and you have to be able to do these things and look, we’ll see, maybe I’ll get lucky and just keep getting lots and lots of TV work and be able to keep this going. But I wouldn’t be surprised if eventually I’ll be teaching, which I miss though, I miss teaching, I love it.

Debbie O’Shea 

Yeah, because teaching also informs composition.

Joe Twist 

It does. That’s right.

Debbie O’Shea 

So there’s that positive side. I mean, I would like to accept that I’ve worked in music education and so on the edge of other forms of music in Australia for quite a long time now. And I know it’s a tough gig to make a living as a composer, I think Australia might be particularly difficult. Maybe it’s everywhere. So I’d love to say I’m sure it will continue, but I imagine it’s quite a scary thing. Well, let’s hope, yes, it continues, but it must be a scary thing. It’s something sometimes we take for granted as teachers, as much as our job gets sometimes very demanding and difficult, my paycheck is in my bank every two weeks, and I tell you what, I’d never take that for granted.

Joe Twist 

There you go. And they take the tax out so that at the end of, sorry- getting a bit technical- but when it comes to tax times you don’t get the big thing like I’ve got huge bills from a tax department I’ve got to pay myself. But it’s just a soul trading thing. That’s right, that’s like a really specific detail thing. But I just thank the lucky stars every day that I’ve managed to keep it going. I’m not sitting here with bated breath waiting for it to dry up. I just think I’m lucky that it looks like I’m good for a while. But anything can happen. We’ll see what happens. Yeah.

Debbie O’Shea 

Excellent. Can I ask a little about Bluey, even though I know that you said you’ve not done most of the episodes, but one of the things that my audience loves about Bluey is the way that art, music, classical music, is incorporated and these little snippets that occur are just a really powerful way to introduce kids to this music. Can you tell us a little about why and how? And I mean, I just know we appreciate it and actually use it in our classrooms to just play little snippets and bring it out and say, Oh, and here it is played by an orchestra, or whatever. So how did it come about do you know?

Behind The Scenes of Bluey

Joe Twist 

It’s a joint effort I’m pretty sure. I get a lot of this through Joff, who really is my boss in a sense, in this thing. Joff is the main composer of the show, but also the boss is other directors like Joe Brumm, Charlie Aspinwall as well and Daley Pearson. I think they always had and whether it was Joff who probably encouraged them early on, I think there’s always been a vision to doing that. I think for several reasons, one just sort of the educational element of introducing young people to classical music and what’s out there, just having those tunes available.

And two, I think there’s a sense that good classical music, I mean, we try and create some work like this too, but good classical music is really catchy. The music that echoes through the ages in a way is an earworm. Can be, not all of it, but a lot of it can be earworms. And that’s usually the stuff that we remember.

So the trick really is, I think, in that show, is to turn that into part of the game. I mean, really, the music is sort of reflecting what the game is with obviously often lessons to learn and characters who learn different things throughout the show. But really, in the end, it’s the joy of joy of childhood and it’s the fun of of learning through games. Like nearly every episode is really just a game, let’s face it. So I think  that’s kind of the overall philosophy with it.

The example I’d refer to that I’ve done in particular is Seesaw, the episode called Seesaw. So they’re playing, I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but you know Bluey and Bingo and all their friends are playing on the seesaw, but Bandit (Dad) comes over and sits on one end. And so they can’t play anymore, because he’s too heavy. So it’s this really simple thing of introducing kids to heavy and sort of simple, light and heavy contrast. And so what the music that we use is from Handell. It’s a little more obscure than, say Sleepy Time, which uses Pulse to the Planets, that kind of thing. It’s much more emotional. This is more of a game, I guess, in this one. So I guess it served different purposes. But the the tune is Handell and it is from Let Rolling Streams.

There’s a vocal part, but the main thing is this motive, the octaves that happen. And I think that Joe Brumm actually had the idea for that. Maybe it was Joff, I’m not sure. I was brought on to work on them with the music and wrote a whole bunch of it, but that’s a really clear example. Just the octave (sings) see saw and then (sings) high and low. It’s this idea of contrast in that episode. It’s a game we’re playing, so we’re trying to make it so the heavy, heavy one Bandit ends up like that. So it’s the power of all the kids to get up onto the seesaw and there’s a little Pomeranian who comes at the last minute, Pom Pom.

Pom Pom comes in. She’s a small and hearty breed, a Pomeranian, and it tips the seesaw. So, yeah, I mean, I think that gives you an idea into one episode and the philosophy behind that. There’s another episode, by the way called Calypso that I wrote. It’s an interesting one, because they often use a thing called a temp track, and they were thinking of using the I think it’s actually a hymn originally, but Saint-Saëns uses this melody in his third symphony, the organ symphony.

And there’s, we often do it but Joff will say to me, Oh, well, if you write something similar and different and you can always do that, doesn’t have to be the same song. So sometimes I actually take, we won’t actually quote the classical music like we did with the Handell. We will write a kind of pastiche on the piece and I just sort of moved a few notes around and made my own theme, but it had this sort of flavour. I think actually what they did is they used a bunch of music from the movie Babe, which Nigel Westlake scored using that Saint-Saëns melody. But I wrote something different again, but there’s still again a connection to classical music there. And I think in that episode, it’s really just the joy of different people in different parts of the class.

Calypso is a teacher by the way. One character is doing this, they’re building a little house, and the terriers have made a fort with a bunch of sofa cushions and things like that. So they get this sort of variation on the simple theme that’s got brass and percussion, that kind of thing. And it’s just exploring fun things to do in class, like it just starts at school and the episode finishes at school. And one of the characters makes this great big village for the gnomes, little toy gnomes they have so that create a great big world on a mat with little tiny figurines and stuff like that. So yeah, and music helps to create that sort of wonder and magic. I mean, the music grows and grows, but it uses the same melody throughout that episode.

Some of this, again, is one of these things where you do it intuitively, but when you think about it later you realise what kind of the idea was. Does that help in a way?

Debbie O’Shea 

Yeah. It’s fascinating. It’s fascinating. I love it. I love it Joe, thank you. I know everybody who’s listening is going, this is fascinating. Oh, like you’re giving us a little glimpse into the other side of a world that we see the nice, polished product. Not that I’ve actually ever seen a Bluey episode. Sorry. That’s only because I don’t have little children, I’ll catch up on them all if I ever. I’ve seen snippets.

Joe Twist 

You’re too busy teaching them. You haven’t got time to watch their shows.

Debbie O’Shea 

Exactly. No. I think it’s absolutely fascinating to give us this little insight. Now I do normally ask my guests for nuggets of fabulous, I don’t know if you’ve got any tips, tricks ideas when you go and work with choirs and when you do musicianship, or even tips and tricks for people who want to start writing music. I don’t know, whatever you want. Are there any nuggets of fabulous you’d like to share with my audience?

Nuggets of Fabulous

Joe Twist 

Yeah, see because I don’t actually teach and I mean I have, but I haven’t done much of it. I’ve sort of done bits with City Children Choir years ago and then I kind of go to a rehearsal here and there. Sometimes I find I spend so long in front of my computer writing and then when I’m like in front of musicians, whether they’re children or not, I’m like, Oh, how do I do this again? I’m used to just getting it all right on the computer. So I don’t think I’d have like, a whole bunch of educational nuggets for the educators out there, but I can definitely speak to composers I think.

Debbie O’Shea 

Excellent.

Joe Twist 

And I would just say to remember that, yeah, this is my nugget. I would say that composing is just improvising very, very slowly. Like extremely slowly. And if that inspires people from an inspiration point of view. I mean, I guess there’s a sense where one issue that can happen with teaching music, not really an issue, but just one element of teaching music is we teach the music as it is and we learn the things, the music and the notes and how it works.

And then we like to teach to work on improvising, right? Because it brings another level to it. It encourages creativity. But the next step, really, in my opinion, is just composing. And it’s kind of going back to the nuts and bolts of it in a sense, you gotta go, Well, hang on, if you want to write this down, then what time signature are we in?

And what key, signature, etc, etc, if necessary, maybe you might just play with sound and remember that sometimes you could start a piece by just throwing something into a piano if you want to be really arty. But I digress. So if that helps people connect the idea of composing and to not be scared of it. It goes with what we were talking about earlier, too. But if you can not be scared of composing as this sort of grand thing and it really is just a kind of extension of improvising.

If that helps, then I hope that I’ve made a difference and encourage people to write more. And maybe even that helps to link things together. I know it’s a very, it’s just one nugget and it’s just a very grand kind of macro level one, but I’d like to think it helps, because it’s something I’ve realised in thinking about what I do a lot. And yeah, it’s like, in a sense, I actually think when I started as a musician as a kid, the first thing you actually do do is improvise. I mean you imitate, I guess. And is there a connection between imitating and improvising? I guess there is, you know you imitate.

You do the same thing, you do it differently, or you make a mistake, or whatever. And then you do it in your own way and you find your own things. You slowly learn, like exactly how to play that piece of Bach. And then you learn your Bach chorales and your secondary dominance and all the things and blah, blah. I mean, you know, that’s more University, I guess, than high school but it’s still a thing.

Or you learn the C major scale, you learn pentatonic modes, that kind of thing. So yeah, in a sense, in my opinion, there’s a connection between the learning and the improvising and then the composing. It’s really just, it’s like a photo a piece. It’s a snapshot of how someone improvised something that they think kind of works like that. And maybe you can think of it as, like opening it up on a computer and photoshopping it, that photo when you change it, when you edit and realise, you know what this doesn’t work for this group. It needs to go down a tone. And the the high bit could actually, that could be a D, not an F sharp.

It could just be the tonic rather than the third, all those kind of little things. And that’s  fine and still just this connection. I don’t think we need to have too much of a regimented box in relationship with learning a piece, improvising music and writing music, to me, they’re all interconnected. Yeah. If that helps?

Debbie O’Shea 

Oh, great. I definitely think that’s a nugget. And that that quote at the beginning that you said, improvisation. Help me, what did you say?

Joe Twist 

Composing is improvising very slowly.

Debbie O’Shea 

Yes, composing is improvising very slowly. I think that’s fabulous. Thank you. Now, we do have a little problem with preserving music in our schools at the moment and convincing people that music’s really important. Music education is really important. We need to start with the kids. Whether people are working with the kids or not, but professional musicians need kids to have music in schools. We need it. Do you have any advice? I just like to pick everyone’s brain on this. Any advice around advocacy, how we can help convince people that every kid should have music.

Preserving Music in Schools

Joe Twist 

Oh it’s tough, isn’t it, because I know there are so many people who dedicate a lot of time for this, who are proper educators and I’m not one of them and I would just defer and agree with them. But it I can offer my own experience to that. It’s a little bit like the last one, believe it or not, is that what I want to say is that music is everywhere and the style of music as well is also universal, like styles of music feed from one to another. You know, I’m going to echo and reshare and retweet or whatever or anything where people say music should be taught as an immersive experience. I’m sure Jason Goopy, shout out to Jason Goopy. He does a lot of this kind of stuff in particular. I went to UQ with him. He’s fabulous.

And I believe in that, the same way we do language immersion, music immersion makes so much sense, the way the Hungarians did it, absolutely all that. But I think one problem might be, is that I think people don’t look at music theater or a pop song or a film score, and they don’t see the connection to music education. It’s just sort of this other world thing. So I’m sort of giving you because I’m sort of working in the practitioner world and what have you.

And when I think about writing a pop song, like sometimes I’ve got to write, I had to write an 80s montage Eye of the Tiger kind of thing for The Strange Chores recently, right? And it has a sus chord in it and it’s got a kind of secondary dominant thing. It’s got a sort of Mixolydian mode thing going on, but it’s still just very simple pop so just, I think it’s got a the same sort of bop, bop, bop kind of beat going on. And, like, you can break that down and connect it to any bath or even pentatonic mode.

You could break it down to folk music. Like I think people sometimes fail to realise that when you’re teaching the rudiments of music and the structures of music as this wonderful thing that opens up and provides a springboard for creativity. There’s an assumption that it just leads to a person in a classical music hall behind a piano or a violin. And that’s kind of it, not at all. It leads to Tim Michin. It leads to Kylie Minogue. It leads to Lachlan Skipworth. It leads to Debbie O’Shea. It leads to Paul Jarman. And Paul would echo the same stuff, and he’s a perfect example. I mean, when you go to Festival of Voices and he does those nights where you’re playing songs, he’s on the piano, that kind of thing. I actually didn’t get to go to it, because I was sick.

But I’ve heard so much about it. I’m sure it’s amazing. But to me, it’s all connected. And what’s fun about music is that you learn one thing or you learn how to do a certain technique, and then you hear it, if you really listen in a pop song, and then you hear it in a piece by Beethoven, and you go, Oh, it’s the same thing. And to me, if, if we’re teaching music that way, and I said this as not an educator much, but I dare say, if we teach in that way, I think we inspire more and we encourage more and we and we don’t give the impression that there’s just like a stuffy concert hall with people who are generally in their later years listening to dead white male composers, most the time.

It’s Whitney Houston that has secondary dominance and modulation that totally come out of any classical piece of music. So by the way, I should also add, though, that that’s a very classical centric way. We really should also look at Indian carnatic music and Greek music and Chinese music and people’s music from all over the world and connect that as well. There’s so much to be inspired by that we should love the magic and love all the connections. That’s my suggestion.

Debbie O’Shea 

I think that would be great if we could do that.

Joe Twist 

And it’s all very good, like how do we do that Joe? I don’t have the answer for that I’m sorry.

Debbie O’Shea 

But if we could move a little more towards that, then that would generate out, and that would provide its own momentum. If we all were moving towards that.

Joe Twist 

Well I think so and I mean I spent many years at UQ and I went through University of Queensland, where it was the very traditional classical degree that starts at the Baroque and it goes through to now, sort of, and then you learn that classical thing. But I love finding how other music connected, like I said, the sort of connection between Whitney Houston and the Bach chorales I think there is, but that’s a very traditional, classical way of learning and there’s so much more, so much music I’ve left out.

It’s that battle isn’t it? This is to talk about education generally and it’s just a thought I’ve had, a battle between teaching how to learn and teaching something. And I don’t have the answer to that, but I just present that as something that I’m sure educators and people who are watching who are much bigger experts in it than I am, that’s something I think we need to to deal with in some way. Because, you know, 20, 30, 40 years time, we’ve got a whole another 30 years of music that now exists, and there’s still so much before we don’t really need to be writing new music. I mean, we do actually.

Debbie O’Shea 

Sorry, we’ve gotta keep Joe in the job. Come on.

Joe Twist 

That’s true. What I mean to say is, we’re not, actually, I mean, if you look at repertoire for things like tuba, there’s not enough of it, but there’s a lot of music. Okay? I shouldn’t say there’s not enough. There’s a lot of music, and you can’t ever know all of it, right? But we need to find a way to encourage learning that allows a kind of, the macro and the micro. I suppose that’s kind of what, yeah, the nugget of what I’m trying to say and I don’t know how that’s done. Because I think we’d be great to have young adults and then people in university, and when they graduate from university, know a certain amount of things because they should, I guess, but know it in a way that empowers them to keep learning more. And I don’t know how you do that.

Debbie O’Shea 

No, I don’t know how you would actually do it.

Joe Twist 

Maybe you do it through competition, maybe this is the answer. Maybe everything I’m talking about is the idea, maybe that’s what composing is, that you look backwards while you look to the future. I don’t know. That’s just a thought of the top of my head.

Debbie O’Shea 

Wow that was very deep, but I think you’ve got it though. I mean, there are building blocks that you need. I mean, I don’t want to be the educator that has an illiterate person that can just tap a few keys and put things into a digital audio workstation and go, I understand music. Look, I composed. They just went, tap, tap, tap, and it was random and fine. But they really don’t know what they did, why they did it, how they did it, they couldn’t replicate it. I think there are building blocks. And I know this is my bias, that I believe they should know, but you have to build in that. Maybe it’s curiosity.

Composition Curiosity

Joe Twist 

Yeah and that’s what composing is, really. Yeah, I think it is a curiosity. Quite, quite literally. I mean, it’s a storytelling thing, but it’s storytelling born out of curiosity. Perhaps is the idea. I mean, to throw a spanner in the works, I often discuss about this idea of what students should know, what young people, young musicians should know. It’s difficult and it’s fraught with offense. It can offend people I guess, in a sense. And I provide Paul McCartney as an example of someone who is a genius, the greatest, one of the greatest songwriters in the world and he cannot read music, I believe.

So it’s tricky, but he would know so many things at the same time. It’s not like he doesn’t have the building blocks. He definitely has building blocks. It might not necessarily have to be the one that this person uses as a tool to create what they create. And maybe even goes to the sense that sort of like putting on different hats, and even you collaborating with Paul, with Jarms on the piano part and that kind of thing. Like you have techniques and you have a thing that you can do really, really well. But you even though that might mean that your piano writing might not be as great as someone else’s, it doesn’t mean that you can’t do it, and doesn’t mean that you don’t understand enough about it a bit.

You might kind of go, it again goes to collaborating. Someone just as good has picked up and just knows for example, in film music, synthesisers. Like that’s a big part of a lot of film music, people like to use synthesisers. It’s a whole different world to orchestras or choirs. And I love them and I play around with them, but when I’m really want to get stuck into them, I go to my friends who have basements like full to the brim with synthesisers and I have no idea, they start rambling on about microphones as well, by the way, but also like models of synthesisers and technology and that just goes over my head.

But there’s that’s someone who took the time to learn those building blocks and they know sine waves and they know square tooth waves and they know low frequency oscillators and blah, blah, blah, right? And I know a little bit about it, I guess.

But it didn’t really interest me. I think it helped. It’s great that I know that little bit about it, some little things, know a little bit, but I kind of defer to the experts, because if it doesn’t interest me, well, that’s fine. I mean, what interests me was singing and learning tessituras of voices and passagios and learning all the instruments of the orchestra and beautiful different voices and all the ranges of the instrument, I got into that.

And so they come to me when they want Mr. Orchestra kind of thing. So maybe that’s the example, like, as long as you just kind of have your area of specialty and you know a little bit about all different things, so that you can communicate and make more collaboration and make more things that are bigger than the sum of its parts. As we’ve sort of said a couple of times. That’s my thought of all that.

Debbie O’Shea 

That is a great thought. This has been the most fascinating conversation, Joe.

Joe Twist 

Likewise.

Debbie O’Shea 

Oh, I’ve loved it. I’m hoping, of course, that my listeners will, but I’m sure they will. You’re fascinating.

Joe Twist 

Thank you, it’s been a pleasure.

Debbie O’Shea 

I will keep in contact, I promise. But before you go, you do get to just get on your soapbox and send one important message to the world.

Joe Twist 

Oh wow. Have I said them all already?

Debbie O’Shea 

We have been a little bit on soap boxes for the whole episode, because, let’s face it, we should be.

Joe Twist 

Yeah, we should be.

Debbie O’Shea 

But is there just something else? A little final piece, I think we’ve got some quotable quotes out of this episode. Oh, my heavens. It’s been amazing.

Joe Twist 

Another, like not neccesarily a nugget, but a message to the world. I mean, just to be really cheesy, in a sense, I believe, this is very cheesy, but I love cheesy.

Debbie O’Shea 

Oh, me too. Come on.

Joe Twist 

Yeah, me too. Well, that reminds me of something else, if you want me to go on one little tangent, is that I love that more and more composers are writing romantic and emotional music these days, more and more. People always have, they probably never stopped. But I just love that people are unashamedly doing that. But that’s another story. It’s a little bit sort of going into like art music, anyway. But my message to the world is that singing is an act of love, a communal act of love, and we should just keep doing more of it. How’s that?

Debbie O’Shea 

That is absolutely amazing and on that.

Joe Twist 

I feel embarrassed.

Debbie O’Shea 

No, don’t be embarrassed. It is just, you’re going to make me cry.

Joe Twist 

It’s true though. I mean, I stand by it. It’s important in a really crazy world that we live in, that we just keep singing and it’s a communal act of love, I think so. And we need more and more of it these days.

Debbie O’Shea 

Oh, I love it. And thank you so much for joining me, Joe.

Joe Twist 

Oh, thank you, Deb, my pleasure.

Sign-Off

Thank you for joining me for this podcast. Don’t forget, you’ll find the show notes and transcript and all sorts of information on crescendo.com.au. If you’ve enjoyed the podcast or found it valuable, you might like to rate it on your podcast player and leave a review. I’d really appreciate it if you did. All I can be as the best version of me. All you can do is be the best you. Until next time, bye.

Just for Laughs

As we know, laughter relieves stress, don’t lose sight of the funny side of life.
I asked my friend what date her birthday was. She said march first. So I walked around the room and asked her again.