The Art of Session Etiquette with Tara Conahan (Part 2) | 197

Welcome back to Crescendo Chat. This is Part 2 of my conversation with Tara Conahan.

In Part 1, Tara introduced us to the rich tradition of Irish music sessions. We also explored the importance of session etiquette and how these unwritten customs help musicians feel welcomed, respected, and connected.

In this episode, we take our conversation about session etiquette even further.

Tara shares fascinating insights into why newcomers often feel anxious when they enter a music session for the first time. We explore how session etiquette helps reduce that uncertainty by giving people clear expectations, building confidence, and creating a sense of belonging.

Although our conversation begins in the pubs and session circles of Ireland, the lessons extend far beyond traditional music. We discuss how the principles of session etiquette can transform any music classroom. From setting expectations to welcoming new students, Tara explains how small actions can help every learner feel safe, included, and ready to participate.

If you’ve ever wondered how to create a classroom where students feel comfortable taking risks and making music together, you’ll find plenty of practical ideas in this conversation.

So, let’s jump back into Part 2 of my conversation with Tara Conahan.

Links Mentioned in the Episode: 

• TED Talk with Louise Kelly

Connect with Tara:

• Website: https://www.sessionetiquette.com/
• Podcast

Where to find me: 

Crescendo Community Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/crescendocommunity
Official Crescendo Page: https://www.facebook.com/CrescendoMusicEd/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/CrescendoMusicEd
Twitter: https://twitter.com/crescendomusic
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbie-o-shea-62a3741b/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/CrescendoDeb

Introduction

G’day. I’m Debbie O’Shea. This is the Crescendo Music Education Podcast, episode number 197. We’re here because music education isn’t optional; it’s essential. 

This podcast is being recorded on the lands of the Turrbal people. I acknowledge them as the traditional owners of the land and pay my respects to elders, past, present, and emerging. They were the first music makers on this land. 

Respecting the Culture of a Music Session

Debbie O’Shea 

Thanks for joining me again on the Crescendo Musik Education podcast because this is part two of Tara Conahan and we listen to all things Irish music and we listen to her nuggets of fabulous and her inspiration and I know you’re going to love part two of my talk with Tara. So one of the things that I’ve gleaned from what you’re writing is that one of the big learnings in session etiquette, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, is to respect what exists before you, and I guess if you keep that in front, at the front of your mind, then you’re less likely to commit the big faux pas and stuff because every space must have its own history and its own culture and its own little communication. So, would would that be a fair little summary of something that you could keep in your mind?

Tara Conahan

I definitely think so because you know it’s not just that learners or newcomers have rules; it’s the rules are for all of us. So even like me coming into a session, it was a session that I had never been to. It was it was already in existence. Now, if that session had been that myself and three or four friends from New York decided to come together and we texted each other and we met each other in a pub and started a session, then that’s different because that doesn’t exist beforehand. But the fact that it exists and I’m, I suppose I have to think about how does my energy fit into what exists there already.

Debbie O’Shea  

And how do I? So what did you? So what did you do? Like you observed.

Tara Conahan 

I observed, and and like so yeah, in the session in the session in New York, I came in, and you know I knew there was some of the musicians that I’d seen before, and I had met one the night beforehand, so that did change things. Now, a couple of nights beforehand, there was a session that they didn’t know I was coming, and I didn’t join because I I joined. I came in quite late. The musicians are really high quality, and I could have played, but would I have added to it? You know, it might be more for me that, like, if I had joined in, I might have said, “Oh, I played with so and so, and I think they probably would have respected me more that I didn’t. So, that’s the option I took because I thought I’ll just sit back and enjoy. And it was really late when I came in. I mean, it would have been kind of rude to join in at that stage anyway. So yeah, and they did say, you know, do you want to come in? It’s like, no, no, no. And plus, I had had a couple of drinks, and I can’t play when I’ve had a couple of drinks. Not that I had very many, because it doesn’t take many for me to. But I had had an Irish coffee, so yeah, and and yeah, fingers and coordination just goes. So I wouldn’t have done myself justice. It was nicer to just, you know, I I got to chat to the musicians fine, and I didn’t need to be part of it.

Debbie O’Shea  

That that’s a lovely story. That’s a good illustration, isn’t it? Of of yeah choices and decisions and things.

Tara Conahan

I suppose maybe if I, you have to get to a certain level to be able to, yeah, or maybe hours put in so many hours to get to that. As in, I don’t need to play every single moment. Whereas if you’re still in the like the the honeymoon phase, you’re like, oh my god, I need to play every single tune. And we like we’re all at that stage, and that’s the stage, as somebody called it, the dangerous intermediate, where you’re.

Debbie O’Shea  

Yeah, the person that that doesn’t realise how much they don’t know yet.

Tara Conahan

Yes, but they’re so excited, and look, it’s it’s actually endearing to see the excitement as well. It’s lovely. So if you can harness that excitement and keep it in a in a a way that kind of keeps the flow with everybody else. I mean, it can be fantastic when it’s harnessed that way. But yeah, we’ve all been that.

Helping Young Musicians Navigate Unfamiliar Spaces

Debbie O’Shea  

Yes, yeah, we have. So, if we’re looking at our music classrooms. And us performing, I think you pointed out a really important difference: that the fact that we’re dealing with children and we’re the boss. I mean, of course, we try to be approachable and we’re kind and we’re all of those things. But if a child does do the wrong thing, you can just say, in this room, you don’t just go and play the xylophones whenever you want. I’m sorry, that’s the rule. So we can be more dictatorial. Yes, has to be.

Tara Conahan

Yeah. Well, I’m just saying, like, if yeah, you think of the animal kingdom, they have. So I’m, you know, they’re like, no, you know, or like I’m thinking even of even a cat with the kitten. It’s like there’s a you know a little bit of a tap going. No, that’s not acceptable, and that’s that’s all part of learning. We all had that. Yeah. If we don’t have that, then.

Debbie O’Shea  

But it is tricky to do in a session. You can’t reach over with your paw and give someone away because they just started playing a piece at the wrong time. No.

Tara Conahan  

Yeah.

Debbie O’Shea  

Don’t do that.

Tara Conahan

Yeah, and in a session for for if there’s teenagers in a session or young people, I mean the the rules are kind of I really really hate using the the word rules, but they’re a lot looser, you know, because you’re you’re kind of thinking, well, what at what stage are they are or are they at on this journey, and they’re still maybe if they’re doing these kind of mistakes and they’re still kind of new to their journey, so you can’t bring them up to the you know to the level of up here immediately. That has to be a journey. So you know maybe this week you might say, oh that was really good. Do you know what we might do next time? We might do this the next time and see how that works. So you’re doing one little thing. It’s not like bombarding them with. Oh no, you can’t. You can’t do that, and you can’t do that. There’s too much. You have to bring it on a on a bit of a journey. So, and for kids, I think you think, you know, they’ll be back again. They’ll be back the next time. They’ll be back. You know, so you will see them again, and you get to kind of bring them under your wing and and show them and help them.

Debbie O’Shea  

Yes, just be kind to them because I I think that what we do see, especially if you’re in an established music programme, one of the parallels I see is that kids that come from another school that have not got a music programme, and they’re suddenly in a group singing and moving and playing, and they’re going, ah, like and the deer in the headlights.

Tara Conahan 

Yes.

Debbie O’Shea  

So I think that’s probably what we would see the most.

Tara Conahan 

Yeah, and I never thought of that. Yeah.

Debbie O’Shea  

And going because they’re they’re afraid. These people, the kids know what bars they’re hitting or what what fingers to to have for the F chord on the ukulele, or you know whatever you’re doing. So I guess that’s the parallel that I’m thinking of, and it’s, I guess, and have you got any advice for helping those kids get over their anxiety?

Preparing Students for Success Through Clear Expectations

Tara Conahan 

I I think in that instance, it’s very much upon the teachers to to give them the information they need before they enter that space, because we’re putting them at a disadvantage if we don’t, and that’s very unfair. It’s quite selfish of a of a teacher to do that. It’s it’s it’s bringing a parallel to a tour guide because I do a bit of tour guide as well. Forgot that, and I would bring the big like a cruise ship that comes into Donegal, and they would go. Some of them would go on a bus, and we’d show them around the area. And one of the events is a wake, so an Irish wake, you know, for somebody. It’s a pretend one, but sometimes the tour guide doesn’t tell them that, and the people who are on the bus are like, what, what do we, what do we look, and they’re just feeling uncomfortable. And that’s that’s really not on that. That is upon that tour guide to give them the information in advance so that they know what they’re going into. This is a replica of an Irish wig. The man in the coffin is not dead. He’s just got powder on his face, and he is not moving, pretending to not move.

Debbie O’Shea  

I would be so freaked out. Exactly. I would love to go to a staged Irish wake. Love it. But if I rocked up on him to a bus and I thought it was a real way. I’d go, “What the are you doing? Get back on the bus.

Tara Conahan

Yeah, what am I supposed? Why am I here? What what is going on? And I I can just imagine that’s exactly what kids are going to be like going into something going, what why did nobody? I don’t understand what’s going on. Fear. I can even feel it in my in my gut. I can feel it in my my chest, and so yeah, it’s we have to tell them what they’re going to. I remember when we were going on a school tour. This it’s probably X rated slightly. We’re going on a school tour to France. There was about five or six of us. We were musicians and being brought over to like an exchange to a school in France, and we were told in advance, you know, French teenagers are a little bit more promiscuous than Irish teenagers at the time. This was in the 90s, and yeah, so they were like, so just be careful, you know, there might be more expectations on you than there would be at home, so just be careful and just be mindful of that. And do you know what? It was really invaluable advice, and I’m so glad that they gave us that advice so that we weren’t going into something totally blind.

Debbie O’Shea  

Yeah.

Tara Conahan

And I, you know, if a teacher, I I I can’t imagine that a teacher wouldn’t give advice. But then maybe

Debbie O’Shea  

Yes, the the issue the issue is that for us, and this is what’s in my head, and I know all my primary music colleagues are going, yeah, but like I I had a new child in a class today, they just rock up like we because of you have half an hour lessons class at a time. It’s like a sausage factory. Yes, like half the time I don’t even get to talk to the classroom teachers. You know, they sort of drop the moth wave. They’re gone. Okay, and oh hello, I haven’t met you before, have I? Thinking I don’t know. I teach about 200 children a day.

Tara Conahan 

Wow! You know,

Debbie O’Shea  

So oh hello, and I’ve got a whole new batch this year because I’m in new situations. You know, so that’s a lot of children, and I’m not even sure if I’ve met them before. Sometimes that’s an awful thing to admit, but you know, people in my sort of job will understand. I think.

Tara Conahan

Yes.

Debbie O’Shea  

And we just we don’t even get an email telling us. Look, sometimes we do. I’m sorry. Often we don’t even get an email saying there is a new child in your grade four class, and it’s so and so. So you don’t even know you’ve got one. You don’t know what name. You don’t know where they came from. You don’t know what their experience is with music. I just think we’ve got to be so diplomatic and so caring and so protective. Yeah.

Tara Conahan 

I think that’s that’s not just on on you as music teachers. That’s on the teachers or the parents who have decided that they’re going to go and do this activity. So once they decide to sign up to that activity, they need to get some sort of a literature or something, just even basic saying, you know this is the class, it will have this in it. It will have that in it. This is how to get the best out of it. This is if you do this, it’ll be really really good. If you enjoy it, that’s you know the most you know the most important thing is that you enjoy it, so that they don’t feel that there’s this whole fear of you have to do this, you have to do that. But there’s kind of like a, you know, you’re you’re an open person, so you’re gonna provide beautiful open guidelines. I think.

Debbie O’Shea  

Do you know what? That’s a really good point. I’m. They have no choice. They have to come to me. It’s curriculum, music curriculum. So every child does it. But maybe we should be. This is me thinking aloud. Yeah, my listeners are used to it. Lovely listeners don’t turn off. Maybe we need to be more proactive about this. Is what our music lessons are like, and this is, you know, I think we’re trying to be better at telling people how important what we do is, but maybe if we see it as helping to set up expectations for success in the music classroom, so maybe we could do a little more like that. We we have very little control over administrative systems and the classroom teachers and the families, but maybe we could do a bit more proactively. Just me thinking out loud.

Tara Conahan

And and also it puts you in a more valued position. Yes, because I think if you take yourself seriously, look, this is what, and you’re more in a giving as well. You’re like, I’m doing this because I want them to be, I want them to enjoy it. Like they’re not coming to a music class because you know they’re going to hate it. You don’t like you don’t come to a music class because you because you want to waste time that you are going to you know forever regret. I don’t you know do people ever say that? I hope nobody would ever say that about music.

Debbie O’Shea  

Oh, I.

Tara Conahan

Spending time in music. Oh.

Debbie O’Shea  

Oh! Oh no, it breaks my heart. Luckily, I’ve not heard it said about my classes, and if they haven’t told me, but but no, it would it would break your heart. But you know that’s good because one of the things that I like to bring us back to is advocacy, and it’s actually that’s bringing us to this space quite nicely because you are obviously passionate about making music spaces welcoming and accessible, and where people don’t feel anxious and where they can get this idea of the session etiquette and joining in, so do you have any other advice for our listeners around selling, whether they’re teaching privately or in a school system like me, where it’s part of the curriculum? But the problem is that that’s being cut in many of our schools, and we’re having to say music should be the last thing you cut. Do you have any advice around advocacy? Selling what we do is important.

Finding Joy and Advocating for Music Education

Tara Conahan 

There is a friend of mine who has given a TED talk, and it’s called TED Talk Trilly, which is in the south of Ireland, and she gave a beautiful talk about. She’s a music therapist about that music is for everybody. If people get to listen to that, it is transformational. You know that the music lights up the whole brain. Now her name is Louise Kelly.

Debbie O’Shea  

Yes.

Tara Conahan

I think isn’t it Louise?

Debbie O’Shea  

Yeah. Yes, I’ve contacted her and she said she’d be on my podcast.

Tara Conahan

Oh, Louise! 

Debbie O’Shea  

So I have to chase that up. Yeah. It is. Yes. It’s a fabulous TED Talk. Yes.

Tara Conahan

Fabulous. Yeah.

Debbie O’Shea  

I’ll put that in the show notes.

Tara Conahan  

It’s really good, and it’s like music lights up more so than any of the other arts, the art forms like poetry or drama, they none of them come close to what music can do and with your brain. Like it’s, why wouldn’t we want to give that experience to people? I mean, it’s just so whatever words you need to use to to sell it that way, you know it’s the it’s the most amazing experience of your life. It it music holds memories. It you know it’s music can make you feel differently. It can change your whole. It can change your almost your person. It can change your can change your demeanour if you’re not in a great place, it can bring you up. It can it can bring you down. It’s just it’s I mean it’s like a pill for all else, and a pill for and you know it’s and in this kind of world where we want things to be instant, you know we’re kind of the instant gratification, and everything’s kind of convenient and you know, quick-that’s actually one of the quickest things. We don’t realise it. It just happens. It can happen immediately. You hear something, you’re like immediately transported to somewhere else. It’s like time travel and everything. It’s it is amazing, and it can be so luxe. Even when I’m sitting in a session, and there was times where, and I had conversations with some musicians recently about this, where they said, “How, after all these years, are you still really enjoying the session? And I had to think about what I actually did because I do remember having to change, and I, it’s not that I stopped doing it for money, but I stopped doing it as a job. So there was a difference. I still get paid, but it’s not my main. I kind of stopped it being my main job. I was doing other things. I’m doing a bit of tour guide and whatever. So that it allowed me to be when I was in a session, it was for filling up my soul. It was, it was it’s feeding me like I love it, and I had sessions every night in New York when I was there, and I’d have sessions regularly as well here. But it just it fills the soul for me, and I don’t want anything to disrupt that because it did when I was getting paid, and it was a job. It it it took away the joy, and I was like, what what have I what did I have left then if I didn’t have joy in music? Like I had nothing left, so I had to make a decision. I just had to make a very quick decision, and not a quick one actually. It took a while to think and change, but it was like right. If if I’m going to play, if I’m getting money, then that’s that’s a an added bonus, but it’s not the reason I’m doing it. So it’s never the reason I’m doing the music thing, and I’ll say no to things that I don’t want to do because I because I just need the money. That means I’m broke, but that doesn’t matter. You know, I’m happy, but.

Debbie O’Shea  

I love it, and yes, it’s you made the choice that you’re going to to find that joy. And in fact, I was just having a conversation with a friend about the same thing with teaching, that you just have to choose to find the joy from the children and and the music, even if we’re singing a three note song beautifully, you know, like choosing the joy, because it would it’s very easy to choose the not joy to use the systemic struggles, the fact that you can’t go and have a wee until the bell goes, like you know, there’s there’s a lot that you can go. Oh, I’m I’m exhausted at the end of the day. I’m not treated with respect because I’m just the babysitter. You know, there’s so much that could get you down about our job, but there’s also so much joy, so much delight, and if you choose to focus on that, then that’s the spiral upward.

Tara Conahan 

Yes, totally. And even just being grateful for being in that moment-you know-we’re alive.

Debbie O’Shea  

Absolutely.

Tara Conahan 

We could not. We could totally be not alive.

Debbie O’Shea  

And that’s we were talking age. This is bringing us back to the beginning. And I, as you can no doubt see, are considerably older than you. And when the age bit starts to, you know, when the body’s going, you can’t do that anymore because you’re not 20. Okay, it’s better than the alternative, isn’t it? I’m here.

Tara Conahan 

Absolutely, yeah. I woke up this morning.

Debbie O’Shea  

Uh huh.

Tara Conahan

Yeah.

Debbie O’Shea  

And I am so grateful for moments like this where I get to speak to wonderful people on the other side of the world.

Tara Conahan

I know it’s mad.

Debbie O’Shea  

How amazing is that? Oh my goodness! I don’t know if we got enough into what session etiquette actually is. I mean, I think we did. Is there anything that I really missed about the session etiquette itself? Was there any particular parts we didn’t cover that we should have?

Tara Conahan 

No, I mean, if people want to know more, they can listen to the podcast. It’s called In Tune with Tradition, or you can search for Session Etiquette, and it will come up under that as well. It’s on Spotify and and Apple and all the podcasts. There’s only just clips on YouTube now, so I’m not a big mine isn’t always. It’s mostly audio only, but I do release some clips on on YouTube. But there’s just so many different opinions in that, so it’s not just mine. It’s lots of pers. It’s called perspectives on session etiquette. So you’ll get like loads of different perspectives and ones that challenge me as well. And I’m going, oh, I wouldn’t think that. Which is, it’s almost like there’s a game when we were children called the not so very PC game called Chinese Whispers, where I don’t. Do you use have that as well?

Debbie O’Shea  

Yes. Yeah. I put it in my book, a Chinese Whispers, and then I was a friend read it through and went, I don’t think you should call it Chinese Whispers. Okay, oh, okay, a game where you know, yes, yes.

Tara Conahan 

I think in the states they call it telephone.

Debbie O’Shea  

Yes.

Tara Conahan

Yeah. So that’s kind of a good name.

Debbie O’Shea  

Probably a better name than Chinese Whispers. Yeah.

Tara Conahan

Yeah. Where wherever that came from. Who knows that name? I don’t know, but you’re you know you’re so we all have a slightly different version of what we think is the same thing, you know, which is brilliant because if we’re all the same, it’d be so boring.

Debbie O’Shea  

It would be, and everyone’s perspective has to be different because it’s coming from them, their perspective, their life experience, their their preconceived notions. That’s what makes this place so wonderful.

Tara Conahan  

Yeah, and they’re all valid as well, because I think sometimes maybe adult learners think that their opinion is less valid because they’re just coming to it new, or learners of any, maybe even teenagers or youngsters, think that their opinion is less valued, or maybe less. What’s the word? It’s not valid, but it’s just.

Debbie O’Shea  

Authentic.

Tara Conahan 

Yeah, maybe not not authentic, but it’s just less. It’s just not. It’s not required. It’s like surface to the requirement. Whereas, I think everybody’s opinion has to be thought about because we’re all musics is like this big teamwork thing that we all do together, especially in sessions. So I think if we want people to be involved, then we we need to understand where everybody comes from, so that we’re not stepping on somebody else’s dreams.

Debbie O’Shea  

Oh, that’s beautiful.

Tara Conahan

I stole that. That’s from the. It’s from the words of W. B. Yeats, the the poet, the Irish poet. What is it? What is it? It’s be careful where you tread because you. What is it? I need to. I need to remember that now. Hold on. I can find it, but you can you can find it and and set it up.

Tara Conahan

I think it’s like be careful where you tread because you may tread, but tread softly because you tread on my dreams. That’s what it is. Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.

Debbie O’Shea  

It is beautiful, and we should keep it in mind. And before we go, I like to give all of my guests a soapbox moment where you get to say something to the world, the world of music, traditional music, music education, all sorts of music and people. What what do you think doesn’t get talked about enough? Anything you would like to say as your nice or the change you’d most like to see? I would love you to hop on your soapbox.

Inclusion, Respect, and Working Together

Tara Conahan  

I think I’ve probably given you all my because I’m not shy about coming forward. Yeah, just if you’re thinking about like trying to take take up music, oh my god, jump on it! Don’t be afraid to to try it out anyway. Definitely, don’t let the the term session etiquette put you off. Actually, that is something that I I did kind of the website is called sessioneducate.com and I have stickers. So you know, so I did kind of promote the session etiquette saying at the start, primarily because I thought it would probably get a little bit of headlines, right? It did grab attention, yes, and so it. But I, I knew that once people would get into it, that they would understand that that’s. It’s not that I’m trying to exclude. It’s that I’m trying to make sure people understand so that they can that we can all kind of be better, or know where we where we fit in as well, and how to fit in. So yeah, I’ve I’ve since that now like I’ve got the the session etiquette kind of out there. I’m now kind of keeping it more in the name of the the podcast at the end June with tradition. So yeah, I think I did have to do a bit of headline grabbing first at the start, so apologies, folks. It’s not about keeping people out. It’s about actually, you know, making them feel comfortable.

Debbie O’Shea  

It’s about inclusion and respect.

Tara Conahan 

Yes. Yeah. So it’s not about inclusion at the cost of others as well.

Debbie O’Shea  

Yes.

Tara Conahan

Yeah. I think there’s kind of a. It has to be a. Yeah, for anything in life, I think how can we all work together better?

Debbie O’Shea  

Yeah.

Tara Conahan

So.

Debbie O’Shea  

And and I yes, that’s a balancing act in education too. You know, the inclusion of everybody can really affect the inclusion of some can affect others. Everything has to be considered.

Tara Conahan

Yeah.

Debbie O’Shea  

And I think yeah. Come on.

Tara Conahan

It’s a hard balancing act. Yes, it is hard. I’m not saying that it’s easy, but I think if we’re aware of it, because there’ll be a lot of people who might not be aware of this at all.

Debbie O’Shea  

Well, I had honestly, until I’d come across you, never thought about session etiquette. So yeah, it’s or even.

Tara Conahan

Etiquette, or even etiquette in any sort of format.

Debbie O’Shea  

Yes.

Tara Conahan  

It’s yeah, it’s it’s almost like people think of it as an antiquated kind of term that it you know, that doesn’t apply anymore. But actually, we all are still human. We all have to respect each other. So, and that’s what it is at the end of the day. The whole world-we’re just all one big team that have to play together.

Debbie O’Shea  

I do love that. I love that thought, and I think we should close on that because that warms my heart. And I want to thank you, Tara, for your time and your wisdom, your generosity, and people can find you at sessionedtiquette.com, and we’ll put any other links you want to send your way. We’ll put them in the show notes, and just thank you so much for your time.

Tara Conahan 

Thank you so much, Debbie.

Sign-off

Thank you for joining me for this podcast. Don’t forget, you’ll find the show notes and transcript and all sorts of information on crescendo.com.au. If you’ve enjoyed the podcast or found it valuable, you might like to rate it on your podcast player and leave a review. I’d really appreciate it if you did. All I can be is the best version of me. All you can do is be the best you. Until next time, bye. 

Just for Laughs

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